CMCL Interview: Calum Grevers

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Welcome to the Changing Minds Changing Lives podcast.

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Welcome back.

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My name is Julie Sowash,

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I'm the executive director and co-founder of Disability Solutions.

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We are a nonprofit based out of the United States

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that work with companies around the world to help them figure out

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how to meet people with disabilities, where they are,

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hire them, retain them, and grow them within their organizations.

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this podcast is about changing minds and changing lives for our community.

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And I hope if this is the first time you are logging in and checking out

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either via YouTube or via your favorite,

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podcast player like Spotify or Apple,

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that you check out some of our previous episodes,

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we've had some incredible interviews, and we're going to have some more.

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And another one today.

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I want to welcome to the show today, Calum Grevers,

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who is a disability and inclusion consultant, a public speaker,

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a policy researcher, a disability campaigner

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who is also joining us today from Edinburgh,

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Scotland, which I just got to visit and we had a chance to talk about.

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So Callum, thank you for joining Changing Minds Changing Lives today.

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Thank you.

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Oh, so talk about

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or just tell us a little bit about Callum.

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Right. So,

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before I run a is this I've,

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talk about my disability.

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so I have muscular dystrophy.

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I use a wheelchair.

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and basically, I kind of discovered

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my passion for raising consciousness of disability issues and ableism.

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from a campaign I started.

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So from back in 2019,

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I was living my parents home, which wasn't accessible.

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And this was kind of effecting, I mean, my mental health

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like career prospects and so I think when you're in an unstable

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housing situation, it affects most aspects of your life.

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and so basically what happened

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was I applied for social housing,

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public housing for American audiences.

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And basically what happened was

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I was put on a waiting list,

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and I was told I had to wait for a needs assessment 

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even though the local authority has plenty of information

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about my condition, about my situation

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from social work, from NHS, from other,

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institutions.

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But basically I was waiting 

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that was canceled because of the pandemic

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for an indefinite time.

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and I did a bit of research about,

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how long I'd be expected to wait.

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And there was a freedom of information requests.

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and so the average waiting time was for three years

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for an accessible flat, for disabled people.

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And obviously with the

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pandemic that was a huge backlog.

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So mine was increased up because of the economic impact,

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These assessments had stopped so

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basically it was kind of maybe

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five years before I could live independently 

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And grow  my career and basically

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just take my life to the next stage.

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So I might

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I don't really know what to do.

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There was like no real options.

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So my friends and family suggested

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I start a crowdfunding campaign, but I was like,

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I don't really want to perpetuate the narrative that

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disabled people should depend on charity

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and distract from kind of like their societal 

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barriers that are in this situation.

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so I kind of thought about

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how can I balance fundraising for myself

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with raising awareness of issues and housing,

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other barriers disabled people face?

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just to make it not just about me,

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because I don't want to feel like I'm

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kind of utilizing

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people's assumption that

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disabled people should rely on charity, but.

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So I kind of tried to balance those two things.

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I wouldn't say it always worked perfectly, but I did get to

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raise awareness of issues.

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Definitely was  successful, but sometimes you work with the media.

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They're very like they try to fit you

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into these old disability narratives,

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whether that's inspiration or tragedy or charity.

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And I think when you do these

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TV interviews, for instance,

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they’re edited to the point that emphasizes

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these stereotypes,

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it doesn't give you the nuance or the

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and it kind of just reflects what the audience

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already believes, if you know what I mean.

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So it was kind of like a difficult thing to balance.

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But in the end, I was successful.

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I raised

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55,000 pounds.

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for an accessible flat

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basically allowed me to kind of part just a quarter share of a flat

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and basically I pay lower rent on the rest, paid fairly accessible.

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and I think

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once I succeeded, I met with the Scottish Government

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to talk about housing policy.

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I felt it was very much

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a tokenistic gesture, really,

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because I was also in the media a lot, they king of wanting to maybe just

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make me quiet, I guess.

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Yeah. Okay.

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I don't feel like I didn't secure

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the kind of meaningful change I that make a lot of people aware.

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A lot of people came to me and said I changed their knowledge

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and attitude to completely to accessibility

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and disability, but

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the system didn't really change.

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But that's not to say, obviously I achieved my goal,

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and I think I also proved to myself what's possible

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as individual campaigner.

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and.

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I feel like  I've built my huge network of people, I have it on social media

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and I kind of started a career

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as a disability consultant.

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And kind of life grew from there really.

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it's changed quite a lot.

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in terms of, like, my confidence, my potential.

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I feel like I don’t feel like the same person as I was five years ago.

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Wow

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but one thing I would say is

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I also learned that you have to manage

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burnout and stuff like that, because when you're campaigning

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as individual for I think it was about three years.

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and after that, yeah, I kind of had to 

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You know how to manage.

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I don't think I managed as well as I could 

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so I think the campaign stopped

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after after that.

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and then I focused on my career.

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Great.

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well, thank you for sharing that.

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I mean, that's quite a that's quite a journey.

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So. And there's quite a bit that I want

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to kind of unpack with you, if you don't mind.

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so basically if,

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for I think our American listeners

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kind of also have some assumption about most buildings

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being accessible for people with mobility challenges and those kind of things,

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which is not true in America, but in Europe and, and the UK, where

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buildings are substantially older,

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and were built in sometimes completely different centuries.

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accessibility is a huge issue.

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especially for someone who uses a wheelchair.

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And so you were a young guy.

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You still look like a pretty young guy to me.

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Ready to get out, start his career, do his thing. and

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what you found is not only

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was accessible housing not readily available,

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but then social housing with that was also

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accessible was going to be basically five plus years out for you.

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Is that right?

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Yeah.

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Based on the freedom requests, I said the average waiting time

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that was before the pandemic, but the average wait times three years.

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So when if you think about the demand increasing by people who

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maybe lost their jobs through the pandemic or

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weren’t earning enough to go towards social housing isolation.

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So but it also means that

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home visits for needs assessments stopped

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because they weren't able to

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transit people's homes because of the risk of spreading Covid.

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obviously

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that then it went over three years.

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So fetching that and

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so that's kind of what my

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impression was.

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They did actually once I  moved out, they asked me

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to do a needs assessment, knowing that I had come out for me to list and

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that was after I think that was in 2022,

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even though my campaign started in

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like start 2020 I think.

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Yeah.

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So I can say no, thanks.

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Yeah, there's a lot of issues in the allocation system.

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and obviously this information

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could have been passed from another department.

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There's not enough communication or centralization between different areas.

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So we just repeat work.

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Yes, I've met social workers in the past.

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They have information about my situation, my disability.

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If that's all or any.

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So we can really,

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streamline that process and I think

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why why do you think they don't streamline that process?

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Or what did you learn when you met with government officials about why

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this wasn't a priority?

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well, we did some things like

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there is accessible to requirements,

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there is regulations there.

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but for me, I think the issue  is,

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because of cuts from 2010

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to Cameron's government,

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the local authorities can't challenge

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developers in court if they don't follow regulations.

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They don't have the funds to be able to do that.

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and I think we have like a requirement of

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a certain proportion to be accessible,

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but it's not high enough per person

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because we think about there's an aging population.

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And obviously people age,

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so they develop disabilities

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and it's better for them staying in their  home.

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It's better for their physical health

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and mental health.

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and also to think about

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what's their impact of a society where

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disabled people cannot enter people's homes,

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it's, kind of full of segregation, almost.

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So I just want to improve,

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it limits

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what's possible for a disabled person,

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to have their life there

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throughout all of their life.

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but basically, I was told

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that these are the things they're doing, and it wasn't really enough.

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I didn't feel they were really engaging

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the client whether they're going to preset responses.

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Unfair. Yes.

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So their politician responses?

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yeah.

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no. You know, I like, I don't like, but I think something that you said

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just said is really important is that, you know, when people

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with certain types of disabilities can't fully interact with any environment,

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it is a it is a form of segregation.

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And I I've not heard it said quite that eloquently.

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And I think that that's something that really can hit home with our listeners.

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Yeah. I think,

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like obviously in terms of

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making friends, in terms of forming relationships.

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It's kind of a limiting in terms of

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the people you can interact with.

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and I kind of, I think

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it makes it's not just segregation, but it kind of makes you feel invisible.

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You don't see them individually if, if they're,

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that's wherever they go as well.

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if  rooms aren’t accessible.

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So it gives people the wrong impression of

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What disabled people can do, what their potential is.

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You'll see it as this is the way it is.

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I think

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the best we can ask is simply

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the data, the interaction of everybody.

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People and disabled people.

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I think that's all that matters.

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And. Okay.

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Yeah, I mean, that just everyday interaction goes a long way.

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Oh, I love that. okay, so

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you were like,

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hey, I'm not going to be able to get into the social housing.

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So I've got to take action for myself,

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which again, I also love a couple of things that you said.

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One, you said I have to be proactive.

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I have to figure out how to change my situation

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in the best way that I can.

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and then the other thing that you said that I think

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I just truly appreciated,

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was that you wanted to make a good balance between

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I have needs and I need help with those needs.

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Not because I'm a person with a disability,

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but because I'm a human who has needs.

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and not reenforcing

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stereotypes through your own messaging, I think, is what you said,

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that people with disabilities should only be viewed

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as charity.

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Can you talk a little more about that?

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Well, I made sure that I emphasized that barriers were

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putting me in this situation

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that I was having to crowdfund to remove those barriers.

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But I was always kind of clear that, you know, it shouldn't be like this,

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I shouldn’t  have to crowdfund to find

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accessible social housing.

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and if I was focusing on, you know, this is my

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the condition, I have the needs that I

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have sometimes I felt like I was doing a disservice to all the work

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disabled activists have done like to remove barriers and

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increased government support, things

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like that. But,

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so that's why I wanted to balance it.

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But I think that was a wee bit of.

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Pride about trying to not ask for help.

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And there's nothing wrong with us or help

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because everybody needs help with something.

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so I think that was more of a

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a fear I had, but it didn't play out

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in, in reality.

00:16:18:26 - 00:16:20:01
yeah.

00:16:20:01 - 00:16:24:13
Yeah, I think, I mean, I think that's just, again, just such an elegant point.

00:16:24:13 - 00:16:28:12
You so often and I live with mental illness,

00:16:28:12 - 00:16:32:01
which is completely different than, than your disability.

00:16:32:09 - 00:16:35:24
But for a long time, I was afraid to ask for help

00:16:35:24 - 00:16:38:24
because I thought I needed to be able to fix it myself,

00:16:38:24 - 00:16:42:08
that there was something innately wrong with me

00:16:42:21 - 00:16:46:21
not being able to work to get my mind to work the way that I needed it to.

00:16:47:03 - 00:16:53:07
And, you know, we have sort of an internalized ableism with ourselves

00:16:53:07 - 00:16:55:11
because

00:16:55:11 - 00:17:00:14
why isn't everything built for me the way that I need for it to be built?

00:17:00:14 - 00:17:02:25
And we almost put that guilt on ourselves.

00:17:02:25 - 00:17:05:25
And I, you know, I really appreciate

00:17:06:13 - 00:17:09:15
your transparency in that part of the conversation

00:17:09:15 - 00:17:13:11
because I think, again, people who are not disabled

00:17:13:16 - 00:17:18:13
need to hear frank conversations from people with disabilities about,

00:17:20:23 - 00:17:22:05
how we feel, you know, that

00:17:22:05 - 00:17:26:18
we want to have that same basic pride of living and engaging and,

00:17:26:18 - 00:17:30:17
you know, going to work day in and day out just like everyone else does.

00:17:31:28 - 00:17:34:00
but sometimes the environment

00:17:34:00 - 00:17:37:00
isn't built in a way that we can function with it.

00:17:37:06 - 00:17:40:24
and you know, that idea that it almost

00:17:41:25 - 00:17:44:19
hampered you in asking for the help

00:17:44:19 - 00:17:48:23
that you needed, but ultimately driving towards the

00:17:48:23 - 00:17:52:05
the dream and the self independence and now the productivity,

00:17:53:03 - 00:17:55:10
that you bring to the community.

00:17:55:10 - 00:17:58:15
I think it's such an important point is

00:17:59:12 - 00:18:01:29
with internalized ableism. It's

00:18:01:29 - 00:18:06:06
you're given the kind of absorb this from able bodied people,

00:18:06:06 - 00:18:09:06
people from the media, from

00:18:10:06 - 00:18:13:06
just people around you, that it's something you have to hide.

00:18:13:13 - 00:18:17:08
and never burden anyone else with by asking for help,

00:18:18:03 - 00:18:21:02
but people don't respond in that way.

00:18:21:10 - 00:18:24:10
You assume people are more willing to help

00:18:24:13 - 00:18:28:07
or than you assume, and you're not really have others.

00:18:28:22 - 00:18:29:02
you know,

00:18:30:17 - 00:18:33:15
so I think it takes so many years

00:18:33:15 - 00:18:36:23
that's gonna unravel all this internalized ableism.

00:18:38:13 - 00:18:38:20
okay.

00:18:38:20 - 00:18:41:20
And just be yourself, be willing to ask for help and

00:18:42:18 - 00:18:45:01
not hide any aspect of yourself

00:18:45:01 - 00:18:48:01
because of other people's attitudes.

00:18:49:24 - 00:18:50:21
and it's I think it's

00:18:50:21 - 00:18:54:17
necessary, especially in the early stages of your life

00:18:55:04 - 00:18:58:03
if you're born with a disability.

00:18:58:24 - 00:19:01:04
because I'm 31,

00:19:01:04 - 00:19:04:04
when I was, like, growing up or in high school,

00:19:04:19 - 00:19:07:18
at that time social media didn't exist

00:19:07:26 - 00:19:10:26
and I think I wasn't so exposed

00:19:10:26 - 00:19:15:07
to positive role models or offensive narratives.

00:19:17:01 - 00:19:20:01
because then that means to having representations

00:19:20:14 - 00:19:23:14
improved a bit for people with disabilities, but

00:19:23:27 - 00:19:26:18
it's still a long way that it is a for other

00:19:26:18 - 00:19:29:18
and marginalized groups.

00:19:31:01 - 00:19:34:00
so you get a complete

00:19:34:04 - 00:19:37:07
wrong impression of who you are, what was possible for you.

00:19:40:11 - 00:19:40:28
And it kind of

00:19:40:28 - 00:19:43:28
never really fully leaves you that attitude.

00:19:44:02 - 00:19:47:23
It's always something you have to push your way back from.

00:19:47:23 - 00:19:50:09
the back of your mind,  that you deserve the support.

00:19:50:09 - 00:19:53:09
You're asking for it.

00:19:53:15 - 00:19:55:17
you're burdening other  people with this,

00:19:55:17 - 00:19:58:00
but you always have to kind of

00:19:58:00 - 00:20:00:02
push that away, I think.

00:20:00:02 - 00:20:03:28
Yeah, I mean, and that's, again, such a such a great point.

00:20:03:28 - 00:20:07:06
And you know, something I've been talking about and you,

00:20:07:15 - 00:20:12:03
you just mentioned is I really feel not in, not in every way,

00:20:12:03 - 00:20:15:05
but in a lot of ways, social media

00:20:15:05 - 00:20:18:05
has been such a positive,

00:20:18:14 - 00:20:21:20
driver for people with all types of disabilities

00:20:21:21 - 00:20:27:08
because we have social circles and, and people

00:20:27:08 - 00:20:32:06
that we can see and connect with that are living lives like we're living,

00:20:33:17 - 00:20:36:09
and, and going about their daily business.

00:20:36:09 - 00:20:39:15
And that's not just good for us as a community

00:20:39:15 - 00:20:43:10
to have that and to build that, that sense of community.

00:20:43:10 - 00:20:47:01
But it's really important for people without disabilities to see,

00:20:47:26 - 00:20:50:26
as a part of exposure to their everyday lives.

00:20:50:27 - 00:20:52:27
And I think,

00:20:52:27 - 00:20:55:19
one aspect of this is

00:20:55:19 - 00:20:57:05
the kind of,

00:20:57:05 - 00:21:00:05
like I grew up not knowing any other disabled people.

00:21:00:12 - 00:21:03:09
I was the only one in my class at school

00:21:03:09 - 00:21:05:28
or no school, in fact.

00:21:05:28 - 00:21:08:28
so and also because of this

00:21:09:01 - 00:21:12:01
internalized ableism,, you're kind of like,

00:21:12:29 - 00:21:15:29
as bad as it sounds, you don't want to associate yourself

00:21:16:17 - 00:21:18:20
with other people going things about things.

00:21:18:20 - 00:21:20:19
So it's like

00:21:20:19 - 00:21:24:08
it destroys that sense of community with other disabled people.

00:21:26:02 - 00:21:28:02
and obviously that's kind of

00:21:28:02 - 00:21:32:16
that camaraderie is quite useful in terms of your mental health, in terms of,

00:21:34:00 - 00:21:37:00
speaking out when you face injustice.

00:21:39:02 - 00:21:41:26
so I think that's kind of a big aspect of it.

00:21:41:26 - 00:21:44:24
So it wasn't until

00:21:44:24 - 00:21:47:24
much later in life that I was connected with

00:21:48:27 - 00:21:52:14
the disability community, and I saw disability as

00:21:53:27 - 00:21:57:05
the result of barriers in society as opposed to

00:21:57:26 - 00:22:00:25
something wrong with me as a person,

00:22:00:25 - 00:22:03:25
some failure of some kind.

00:22:04:20 - 00:22:09:10
and one thing I saw as a kind of identity, as a diverse community.

00:22:09:29 - 00:22:14:17
That's when things really kind of changed in my life, and I realized that.

00:22:15:07 - 00:22:18:17
So as far as possible and with art, but when you do that,

00:22:19:17 - 00:22:23:08
you kind of get the sense that you have to compensate for a lost time

00:22:24:04 - 00:22:27:17
because of all the things you didn't experience when you were younger,

00:22:28:01 - 00:22:29:01
because you had

00:22:30:07 - 00:22:32:02
a kind of corrupted attitude

00:22:32:02 - 00:22:35:02
to yourself and to disability.

00:22:35:17 - 00:22:39:00
So you've got some some living and catching up to do is what I'm hearing.

00:22:39:14 - 00:22:41:18
Yeah.

00:22:41:18 - 00:22:44:26
So the as sorry.

00:22:45:17 - 00:22:47:26
and now we kind of fast forward,

00:22:47:26 - 00:22:50:25
you have now an apartment

00:22:50:25 - 00:22:53:25
in Edinburgh still that is accessible.

00:22:54:08 - 00:22:57:00
and you are now

00:22:57:00 - 00:23:00:26
in the world of disability and inclusion consultancy.

00:23:00:26 - 00:23:01:24
So tell me a little bit

00:23:01:24 - 00:23:05:28
about this business that you've started, what some of your goals are,

00:23:05:28 - 00:23:08:28
and some of the work that you are doing and want to do.

00:23:09:14 - 00:23:12:16
So basically kind of starts started by accident.

00:23:12:16 - 00:23:14:25
I won't say I'm

00:23:14:25 - 00:23:17:14
after building up this big network on social media.

00:23:17:14 - 00:23:20:23
I wrote a post about the barriers I face to work.

00:23:22:13 - 00:23:25:13
maybe my my career is not where I'd like it to be.

00:23:25:26 - 00:23:29:25
because of barriers in the benefits system,

00:23:32:03 - 00:23:35:03
and estimates of employers, stuff like that.

00:23:35:17 - 00:23:38:11
basically that first went viral.

00:23:38:11 - 00:23:41:18
and as a result, I was offered this kind of freelance opportunity.

00:23:41:18 - 00:23:44:18
It, it was with

00:23:44:23 - 00:23:48:16
a like a university research project about

00:23:49:18 - 00:23:52:18
working with health conditions into employment,

00:23:52:19 - 00:23:57:12
about the kind of workplace policies and current policies that we changed.

00:23:57:25 - 00:24:02:06
So that was kind of my entryway in through that post.

00:24:02:23 - 00:24:05:11
And since then I've picked up

00:24:05:11 - 00:24:08:11
various kind of freelance work,

00:24:09:02 - 00:24:10:01
some disability

00:24:10:01 - 00:24:13:01
inclusion training, some of it I'm

00:24:13:22 - 00:24:15:22
just a general consultancy,

00:24:15:22 - 00:24:18:20
some public speaking.

00:24:18:20 - 00:24:22:00
it's kind of a varied career I’ve built,

00:24:23:24 - 00:24:24:24
felt impacts.

00:24:24:24 - 00:24:27:25
And so it's interesting the way it works.

00:24:29:27 - 00:24:30:28
yeah.

00:24:30:28 - 00:24:33:28
So is this, is this kind of,

00:24:34:06 - 00:24:38:22
is this what you see kind of going forward for you in the future is is really,

00:24:39:04 - 00:24:42:28
growing your advocacy as well as your consultancy,

00:24:43:14 - 00:24:47:10
not just around employment, but potentially just around the

00:24:47:10 - 00:24:50:17
the societal barriers to, to full inclusion.

00:24:50:20 - 00:24:50:28
Yeah.

00:24:50:28 - 00:24:56:06
And I think it's about building a career that are issues that affect me personally.

00:24:56:16 - 00:24:58:09
So I have a passion for it.

00:24:58:09 - 00:25:02:14
But it's also by making it financially viable.

00:25:03:29 - 00:25:06:19
it's kind of finding that balance of activism

00:25:06:19 - 00:25:09:19
and kind of working, setting the system.

00:25:11:16 - 00:25:14:09
and for organizations

00:25:14:09 - 00:25:17:08
just trying to save people's lives in some way.

00:25:18:05 - 00:25:20:03
so I find that quite rewarding.

00:25:20:03 - 00:25:23:03
It's quite fulfilling. But, at the same time

00:25:23:04 - 00:25:27:20
you can't live and breathe disability stuff,

00:25:28:07 - 00:25:31:14
it's not always good for your mental health long term.

00:25:31:27 - 00:25:36:05
So it's still something I try to work with to manage.

00:25:37:05 - 00:25:39:12
Yeah, it's a lifetime's worth of work.

00:25:39:12 - 00:25:39:19
Right.

00:25:39:19 - 00:25:42:29
And sometimes it's it's really emotionally exhausting work.

00:25:44:24 - 00:25:48:08
so this has been such a fun conversation.

00:25:48:08 - 00:25:53:04
I've learned and thought about things in ways that I haven't before.

00:25:53:04 - 00:25:55:24
So I want to thank you for that.

00:25:55:24 - 00:25:59:10
as you know, we always end the podcast with two questions.

00:26:00:08 - 00:26:02:18
and so the first one is, is

00:26:02:18 - 00:26:08:04
what is one thing that you would tell someone in leadership, that would help

00:26:08:04 - 00:26:11:28
change their minds about what people with disabilities bring to the table?

00:26:13:01 - 00:26:13:14
well, I think

00:26:13:14 - 00:26:16:14
first, trying to emphasize that

00:26:17:13 - 00:26:20:13
the kind of social benefits of,

00:26:20:17 - 00:26:23:17
including disabled people isn't just about

00:26:23:28 - 00:26:26:20
enabling me to do to do more.

00:26:26:20 - 00:26:28:08
I think,

00:26:28:08 - 00:26:31:23
to say we have so much to kind of contribute, I think workplaces.

00:26:32:04 - 00:26:35:04
So I think about,

00:26:35:16 - 00:26:38:14
like my lived experience

00:26:38:14 - 00:26:41:14
is as valuable as my work experience.

00:26:42:27 - 00:26:45:27
so like, for example, I

00:26:46:14 - 00:26:49:14
disabled people live in a world that's not built for them.

00:26:49:27 - 00:26:52:20
So as a result, it makes us creative.

00:26:52:20 - 00:26:57:19
It makes us give it challenging old ways of doing things, always thinking

00:26:57:19 - 00:27:02:12
of how something could be better or finding a new way

00:27:02:12 - 00:27:05:12
of doing something.

00:27:05:23 - 00:27:06:19
and our perspectives

00:27:06:19 - 00:27:10:06
are different from able bodied people.

00:27:11:08 - 00:27:14:08
so I think when you have diverse

00:27:14:12 - 00:27:17:08
perspectives that improves decision making.

00:27:19:03 - 00:27:20:19
it makes your work harder

00:27:20:19 - 00:27:23:19
to achieve consensus.

00:27:24:00 - 00:27:25:05
so I think

00:27:25:05 - 00:27:28:16
even just a kind of knowledge of disability and access.

00:27:29:14 - 00:27:32:14
So the just built market globally is worth

00:27:32:29 - 00:27:35:29
$13 trillion when you include disabled peoples

00:27:36:12 - 00:27:39:12
friends and family members.

00:27:41:02 - 00:27:43:00
so obviously it's

00:27:43:00 - 00:27:46:00
good for an organization's profitability.

00:27:48:00 - 00:27:49:25
just a quick

00:27:49:25 - 00:27:52:25
look at the bigger picture when it comes to access.

00:27:53:10 - 00:27:56:10
It's not just about me.

00:27:57:10 - 00:27:59:20
for example, like all the

00:27:59:20 - 00:28:02:01
there's this idea that

00:28:02:01 - 00:28:05:01
accommodations are too expensive,

00:28:05:24 - 00:28:09:20
but in reality, according to the Disability Business

00:28:09:20 - 00:28:13:22
Forum, the average accommodation costs 75 pounds.

00:28:14:13 - 00:28:15:02
And so low cost.

00:28:15:02 - 00:28:16:12
and some of them cost nothing for 

00:28:16:12 - 00:28:21:01
Like working from home that's they already have the

00:28:21:18 - 00:28:24:18
resources.

00:28:24:26 - 00:28:27:05
so there's all these myths

00:28:27:05 - 00:28:30:05
about what it means to include disabled people.

00:28:30:15 - 00:28:33:15
and it needs to be  seen as an investment,

00:28:33:15 - 00:28:36:02
not an expenditure, because that's really what it is.

00:28:37:22 - 00:28:39:13
and the

00:28:39:13 - 00:28:42:06
an investment, not an expenditure, I love that.

00:28:42:06 - 00:28:46:15
And what is one thing that someone has done for you

00:28:46:21 - 00:28:48:28
that's helped change your life?

00:28:48:28 - 00:28:51:09
Well, I would say

00:28:51:09 - 00:28:53:27
express my gratitude to all the people

00:28:53:27 - 00:28:56:27
who donated to my campaign.

00:28:57:06 - 00:28:59:15
I think it was about 2000 people

00:28:59:15 - 00:29:02:15
at the end of the day

00:29:02:15 - 00:29:04:27
and, you know, and everyone's

00:29:04:27 - 00:29:07:06
I was amazed by how much people

00:29:07:06 - 00:29:11:16
engaged with the campaign for connecting to learn about disability

00:29:11:16 - 00:29:14:16
about accessible housing and stuff.

00:29:16:09 - 00:29:17:22
so I just say thank you

00:29:17:22 - 00:29:21:05
to all of them for kind of not just helping me move out ,

00:29:21:21 - 00:29:25:23
but also supporting my career and kind of giving me an opportunity

00:29:25:23 - 00:29:29:17
to give something back to my campaigning as well.

00:29:30:16 - 00:29:31:05
Amazing.

00:29:31:05 - 00:29:36:11
So if someone who is listening or watching right now wants to engage with you.

00:29:36:11 - 00:29:38:29
Callum, where can we find you?

00:29:38:29 - 00:29:41:24
It's very on LinkedIn. I recently started,

00:29:42:26 - 00:29:44:11
Instagram as well.

00:29:44:11 - 00:29:48:04
Hey, I'm going to talk about more personal life experiences,

00:29:49:02 - 00:29:51:12
and stuff like that.

00:29:51:12 - 00:29:52:23
I'm with my consultancy work.

00:29:52:23 - 00:29:54:12
And public speaking.

00:29:54:12 - 00:29:57:12
You can see that on LinkedIn mostly.

00:29:57:12 - 00:29:57:25
Great.

00:29:57:25 - 00:29:58:16
Wonderful.

00:29:58:16 - 00:30:00:20
Calum Grevers, thank you so much for the work

00:30:00:20 - 00:30:01:25
that you're doing in our community.

00:30:01:25 - 00:30:03:10
Thank you for joining us.

00:30:03:10 - 00:30:07:05
And, thank you guys for joining us for another episode of Changing Minds

00:30:07:05 - 00:30:10:03
and Changing Lives. We'll catch up soon. Bye. Thanks for coming.