CMCL Interview: Kole Petersen

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:26:25
Unknown
Welcome back to Changing Minds and Changing Lives podcast. My name is Julie Sowash, I am the founder and executive director of Disability Solutions, where our mission is to help change the minds of corporate leaders and people leaders about the value that people with disabilities bring to their employment and to subsequently change the lives of as many people with disabilities as we can in the process.

00:00:26:28 - 00:00:50:03
Unknown
I am so very excited because I get kind of a special, opportunity today with my guest. So I am going to introduce at least to my part of the disability world, who I think is going to be not think know is going to be an up and coming voice in our community, who's going to be one of those change makers?

00:00:50:03 - 00:01:20:12
Unknown
Because I get the idea. He might be a little fearless. and he definitely says what is on his mind and will hold us to account in ways that I think we as a community, need to be held accountable in the ways that companies need to be held accountable. So and after much, much planning and struggling to figure out how to get our calendars to work together, I have the pleasure of introducing Kole Peterson to the show today.

00:01:20:12 - 00:01:48:16
Unknown
A student at the Colorado College. Cole, welcome to Changing Minds. Changing lives. Thank you so much for that amazing introduction. And thank you again for having me on. Glad we could finally get this worked out. Oh yeah, I'm so excited. So tell us about Kole. So as already mentioned, I'm a student at Colorado College. I'm going to be a sophomore in the fall, majoring in psychology.

00:01:48:17 - 00:02:15:23
Unknown
Also studying indigenous studies and creative writing as minors. I'm on the varsity swim team, on the Disability alliance. back home in Texas, I worked as a referee for my own special needs soccer team, which was an amazing opportunity. my brother was also on that team. Was also autistic as a I. And I'm an autistic self-advocate.

00:02:15:26 - 00:02:39:16
Unknown
That's awesome. And you are a freshman, right? Or just finishing freshman year? Yeah, I just finished my freshman year a couple of weeks ago. Very nice. So what do you swim? I mainly swim breaststroke and individual medley. I think my best event now is the 400. I am 400 I am. If you guys are not swimmers, that is feasibly the most grueling race in all of swimming.

00:02:39:22 - 00:02:59:16
Unknown
Will you, will you be watching the the Paris Olympics and and rooting on the teams? Oh, 100%. I'm really excited to watch all of those events. Oh, yeah. Swimming is my favorite sport of all time. And and closely followed by track and field is our daughter ran track and field in college. So guys are probably wondering Kole.

00:02:59:18 - 00:03:20:26
Unknown
He seems pretty cool, but how did you find him? Why have him come on the show? And Ashley Sims, our marketing director at Disability Solutions, sent me an article that Kole wrote for The Catalyst, the student newspaper at Colorado College that just sort of blew me away. and she was like, we got to get this kid.

00:03:20:27 - 00:03:40:07
Unknown
We got to get him on the podcast. Like, I just know that I've heard you say some of these things, but he's really kind of gone sort of to the table. and really, what he's talking about, to kind of give you a quick intro and we're going to post all of these in the YouTube feed, as well as on our website.

00:03:40:07 - 00:04:08:29
Unknown
As long as that's okay with Kole but it's really talking about, the Disability Equality Index. And in part one there's three parts. Kole calls it a marriage of hope, which just kind of, I think set the tone for all three pieces. So first of all, tell me what prompted you to do this sort of in-depth look at the Disability Equality Index?

00:04:09:01 - 00:04:35:19
Unknown
So I was trying to come up with topics to write about. I'd covered some like, topics on disability and employment, like I've written about the prospect or theater in Connecticut. I've wrote about, I know about, like, the title was Car Wash in Florida. So I want to do something about disability inclusion and employment. So I was just looking around, trying to find if there was like measurements of inclusion, maybe the five companies I could write about.

00:04:35:21 - 00:05:01:25
Unknown
And I came across the Disability Equality Index and I was like, hey, this could be a pretty good resource to use and maybe I'll cover it. So I looked a little bit deeper into it. One other home page found like their corporate partners. And that's where I first got suspicious about it, because there were so many companies that had like scores of 90s or 100 or at some point they were in my mind that meant they were perfect on inclusion.

00:05:01:26 - 00:05:26:05
Unknown
I was like, that's a little suspicious. I kind of want to look into how they score this. So I looked at the questionnaires around, I think 30 pages or so, and I was just shocked and anger that how limiting that questionnaire was and how little the corporations actually needed to do to score high on it. And it was made even worse by the fact that it was all self-reported.

00:05:26:05 - 00:06:03:21
Unknown
So I just went on a deep dive in this, and I felt like I really needed to talk about this. So you and I are in agreement. here I a lot of times, the companies that we work with at Disability Solutions, they also participate in the, the Dei. And what I say about it, generally speaking, is, it is self reporting and it's also a good public relations activity if you're doing the work, if you're not doing the work, then getting 100 on the Dei doesn't, doesn't do anything.

00:06:03:23 - 00:06:36:19
Unknown
And, and I think that that's what you mean when you say a marriage of hope, as you see these companies that you think are doing really well. but then upon deeper inspection, really aren't meeting the bar. Is that a fair statement? Yes, 100%. I think I cover this more in part two, but I mentioned that, Amazon and Nestlé and Southwest Airlines are three companies that all scored a 100 on the index, but have wildly different standards and practices when it comes to disability inclusion.

00:06:36:21 - 00:07:08:02
Unknown
And just to like the average person looking into it or just looking on their website, it can be extremely hard or like almost impossible to to distinguish what these companies are doing. If you're just looking at the score. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And I want to pop back because something that you said in in the first piece that that really stood out to me, and let me quote, we were talking about disability history and just disability employment history.

00:07:08:04 - 00:07:44:01
Unknown
Any disabled person could only find work at freak shows and circuses that exploited their disabilities to entertain the public. This state of disabled employment represents the wider treatment of disabled people. At the time, they were presented as exhibitions rather than human beings. And you know what caught me about that call was that while not an apples to apples comparison, I think we still see that form of freak show in a lot of, places of employment.

00:07:44:01 - 00:08:06:12
Unknown
Because we see tokenism, we see that that random disabled person, that random disabled employee that gets put on all the posters and they get touted around like, they have they've now solved the problem of disabled employment because they've got one bright, shiny object to show off. And that piece, that echo of history, really stood out to me.

00:08:06:14 - 00:08:34:13
Unknown
Yeah. And I hate how that practice has continued to this day, how they really have just one spokesperson trying to, like, bring up the, the, the respect and the prestige of, of their company. Just just because it's one person doesn't really mean that the entire practices of that company reflect it. Right, right. No, exactly. Similar to like greenwashing or rainbow washing, in my opinion.

00:08:34:15 - 00:09:00:01
Unknown
Well, I think that's a that's a really nice comparison. I'm not I'm not thought of it in that way. But you're right. It it is. we'll have to think of a term for that. so, so that we can use it. But yeah, I think that makes a really good point is that, not only do we have, a self-reporting tool, and I don't want to pick on the the dias as the only problem, in our world.

00:09:00:01 - 00:09:24:01
Unknown
But what we're really talking about, I think. And I want you to push back if you disagree. Is that we have companies that are not necessarily focused on doing the work of getting people with disabilities into roles where we are successful, growing and thriving and contributing to the bottom line. But we're getting, we're working on the brand.

00:09:24:01 - 00:09:52:09
Unknown
We're working on having a nice face to it. We're working on the PR pieces of it. And I think that's where when we think about the mirage of hope and the different kind of titles that you used for the the DEA, that's where we get into trouble. Yeah, that's definitely, in my opinion, on the matter. It just seems like for a lot of the companies who participate on under the I, they just want another certification.

00:09:52:09 - 00:10:20:27
Unknown
They just want another like gold star on their resumé rather than like actually wanting to put in that work, making themselves truly inclusive. They only want to be inclusive on paper. So if we think about what would you want to know? Right. If if you coul Peterson had your choice of information about companies that you were going to potentially work for.

00:10:21:00 - 00:10:48:05
Unknown
what what things are most important to you? I mean, first off, I wouldn't make the index self-reported because that would make it way too easy to bypass the system. Another thing I'd want is like it is interviews and opinions from disabled employees themselves, and also outside employers who interacted with their disabled counterparts to see what they view of the of their treatment by the company itself.

00:10:48:08 - 00:11:22:18
Unknown
I also want to see the amount of like a charity worker community involvement that these companies are. And so they're like, to kind of show that they're like truly in touch with the disabled community instead of just putting on a facade. there's, I just want to see if the, if the benefits of the company, like health insurance and all of that are equally applied to disabled, the disabled employees just to have that sort of equitable treatment.

00:11:22:21 - 00:11:40:02
Unknown
And yeah, those are like the main things I can think of. Yeah I think I mean I think those are all really good points right. We want to hear from employees that do work there. Did work there. we want to know I think the hiring numbers, like how many people are hiring and how are they staying.

00:11:40:03 - 00:12:04:24
Unknown
One thing that I think that you pointed out that a lot of times, companies miss, though, is, I call it the what's in it for me? So the the benefits of working at a company when you're a person with a disability, like the, the access to health care, what's going to be covered from a mental health perspective for, you know, neurodivergent individuals, those kind of things, so that you would have access.

00:12:04:24 - 00:12:24:03
Unknown
And I think that is just such a great point. And also how the how they'll be treated by the people in the higher up positions, that's an incredibly important thing, because if you're not respected by the people at the job, how can you expect to get work done or just feel like a part of the community? Yeah, yeah.

00:12:24:03 - 00:12:45:17
Unknown
No, I, I think that's also a really good point. So would you be looking for, like, maybe how, how are managers trained? How are people leaders trained for people with disabilities. And I feel like that sounds like a little generic. Like, I know training doesn't fix everything. but you know, at least I guess, what are the efforts?

00:12:45:19 - 00:13:11:19
Unknown
Yeah, I know it's generic to just say training, but, I mean, it's it's one of the, like, two measures that we have to show, like if the company and the managers actually care enough to, to care for their disabled employees and make them like, make them a fully like, accepted part of the team. What about, how important like, is flexibility to you?

00:13:11:19 - 00:13:29:24
Unknown
And in your, you may be a little young in your career to think about that, but as someone who balances student athlete, full time student as well as then your other responsibilities, and including the catalyst, you know, kind of what's your ideal work environment?

00:13:29:27 - 00:14:01:16
Unknown
I mean, I haven't had a full time job yet, so obviously I might not be the best person to like to put my opinion into that, into the ring. But, I mean, flexibility is definitely important because like, for certain physical and mental disabilities, flexibility is a necessity in order to maintain their physical and mental health. but but but even for non-disabled employers, ability is an incredibly like essential part of of work life balance.

00:14:01:18 - 00:14:30:04
Unknown
Yeah, I agree. And I think that's one thing that we saw a lot of in the pandemic world is that we got that flexibility, and one of our big concerns is how that's being drawn back, now and how beneficial it's been to adding more than 2 million people with disabilities back to the workforce. Yeah. The a return into the office is dangerous for like immunocompromised individuals ancestors to go back into the office.

00:14:30:07 - 00:14:56:29
Unknown
it also provides difficulties for those with physical disabilities. Interacting like in person with coworkers is another problem for people with like developmental the mental disabilities like social anxiety, all of those things. So flexibility is not just like an optional thing for certain workers. It's unnecessary component of the workforce, in my opinion. Yeah. No, I think that's that's a really excellent point.

00:14:56:29 - 00:15:20:26
Unknown
So, not only if we kind of switch gears a little bit, not only do you go after the D, but you also I and I will full transparency. Just found the article before we started recording. But I also see that you have on the catalyst the audacity of Autism Speaks. You want to tell us a little bit about that article?

00:15:20:29 - 00:15:45:10
Unknown
So I first wrote that article two years ago for my high school newspaper. full transparency before that time. I didn't know that much about Autism Speaks. I just kind of, like, blindly supported, because that's what my family and other people in my local community did. But around my sophomore junior year, I really wanted to, like, get more informed and be like a better advocate for people like myself.

00:15:45:10 - 00:16:13:14
Unknown
And, and my brother who are autistic. So I looked into Autism Speaks there policies there like commercials, all of that. And what I found was really discussing. So just finding all that, I was like, the reason why I got into writing for this newspaper, why I continue to write to this day, and how it made me even more passionate about this advocacy.

00:16:13:16 - 00:16:37:18
Unknown
So, no, I mean, that's that's amazing. One being, you know, just in high school. And to think, you know, we have to get a little bit deeper on these things I think is, a credit to, to you. And, and I'll say your parents too. because we do oftentimes just accept a brand at face value. especially in, in the nonprofit world, disabled or not.

00:16:37:21 - 00:17:03:13
Unknown
and so you found that something you thought was supportive of you doesn't meet your values. Is that fair? Yes. Because, like, but one of the key values that Autism Speaks was founded on was the idea that it was a disease that needs to be cured. And I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Just because autism is a disability, it doesn't mean that it's a like a life threatening disease.

00:17:03:13 - 00:17:40:17
Unknown
And that just like struck a chord with me. I really hated that. Like Autism Speaks was like an organization that was like, like a combination of multiple other nonprofits, including Cure Autism Now. And I just don't do not like the fact that curing is a is a big part of their marketing. There's also a commercial I watched where, like, a mom of an autistic child was considered like driving off of the road and like, killing themselves and their child because they were, like, overwhelmed with their child.

00:17:40:19 - 00:18:06:03
Unknown
So that kind of like makes it more sympathetic to the parents about the parents rather than like the autistic people themselves, which I also thought was incredibly disgusting when the attention should be paid to how can we improve the lives of the autistic people in our lives? How can we maybe, like, accommodate them to better function in a neurotypical ran society too?

00:18:06:06 - 00:18:34:03
Unknown
So you brought up something, actually, that we hadn't talked about before we decided to record. But I think is important to call out here is, you know, a lot of times, just from my experience working with companies, we work with employee resource groups or, you know, some sort of disability alliance type group. And a lot of times those groups are run by parents and caregivers instead of employees with disabilities.

00:18:34:06 - 00:19:01:19
Unknown
And I think knowing a little bit about the history of Autism Speaks, it really was a parent led organization for a long time. and, and we really have been encouraging and really helping companies understand that caregivers are a great part of every disability, you know, alliance group. But really, the voices in should be us that should be led by us.

00:19:01:19 - 00:19:27:26
Unknown
It should be directed by us. It should be our voices that are heard us as a big as the primary voice, because we are the ones affected. Yeah, I wholeheartedly cosign that. I think and I think that's something and I, I'm, I'm not a young job seeker, but I think that that's something that is going to be more important to, to job seekers as they enter the workforce.

00:19:27:26 - 00:19:49:17
Unknown
They're going to be looking for, that engagement that is with them and not with their parents. So I think that that you make such an excellent point that I would love so many of the employers out there to hear so before we just kind of talk about you a little bit more, is there anything any other company that you have your targets on right now do?

00:19:49:17 - 00:20:16:18
Unknown
We should be expecting some new bombshell from Kole Peterson. I don't have any in my crosshairs right now. I mean, I kind of touched upon, like, the little bit of research I did on Amazon initially. And how about, like, Nestle in particular? Like, had horrible treatments of, like, deaf workers in their factories in Brazil. And I covered on that that briefly and I believe it was part two of the article.

00:20:16:21 - 00:20:42:00
Unknown
also Amazon has has like denied the disabled workers of their rights, given to them by the Americans with Disabilities Act, even though it was labeled the best place to work for disability inclusion. Just last year. Last year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. So go ahead. But but no, you're not going to like I don't have another like bombshell this or that.

00:20:42:02 - 00:21:00:06
Unknown
but maybe in the future maybe not sure if if you get one, will you give us a heads up so we can, make sure that we share it and and maybe have you back on if it's one we we desperately need to talk about. oh. Yeah. Definitely. I would totally be down for that. Awesome. So how's the how's the reaction been?

00:21:00:06 - 00:21:29:12
Unknown
Have have you gotten a big reaction from anyone in our community or just of, in the corporate community after you wrote these articles? I mean, I haven't gotten anything really from the corporate community. but, but on my campus community, it's been a really positive reception to, like, the people in the accessibility resources department, for example, reached out to me personally and told me that there they're so happy that this kind of discussion was like being more open.

00:21:29:12 - 00:21:57:08
Unknown
The facilities on campus, an English professor also reached out to me personally who, like to join classes in the lens of critical illness studies. And so and also reflected that same tone. And, I was really happy with how much my, how this series and how all of my articles for the course thus far have been, have been received by my campus community, by the community that I have back home.

00:21:57:10 - 00:22:19:28
Unknown
And yeah, I'm sure some I know I love it. and that says a lot for for the college being open to having these conversations. So, I know you're not a journalism major. You're a psychology major. So what? What sort of what's the career trajectory you're looking for? So after undergraduate, I do want to go to graduate school.

00:22:19:28 - 00:22:46:24
Unknown
Got my masters of the. And I want to work either as a clinical psychologist or developmental psychologist, specifically with kids that have neurodevelopmental disabilities like autism, like Down's syndrome, like Williams syndrome. And I just want to work to make sure that they have the best lives possible, to make sure that they can be accepted by their communities and educate their families on how to help with that process.

00:22:46:24 - 00:23:13:07
Unknown
To, is amazing. I am so excited to have had you here today. This has been a conversation that's been long in the making. but one, I'm just so excited to see more of your advocacy and more of your truth telling. to our community and to the corporations that, quite frankly, need to hear it very plainly, just as you've given it to them, as we always do.

00:23:13:09 - 00:23:44:14
Unknown
we're going to end with two questions. the first one is, what is one thing that you would tell a corporate leader or CEO, that would change their mind about what our community can do in their companies? I guess I'd just say plain and simply disabled voices matter to just because we have a disability and just because we may have a harder time, like learning communicative skills, that doesn't mean our voices are less important.

00:23:44:16 - 00:24:21:24
Unknown
Even those that don't have like, have verbal skills. Yet their experience says and and what? And the things that they can do are just as important. People like my brother who are on a different part of the also the spectrum. He's more he's more nonverbal. he doesn't like, take tests well, but his determination, his happiness in life, the experiences that he that he has and the stories that he can tell are invaluable to to not just our family, but to the world as a whole.

00:24:21:27 - 00:24:50:08
Unknown
So all disabled voices matter, even if you can't hear the voices just yet. That's amazing. Clearly you are an amazing big brother and an advocate for him as well. And second question what is one thing that someone has done for you that has helped change your life? I guess I'll just have to go with the constant support of, of my mom.

00:24:50:08 - 00:25:17:20
Unknown
Honestly, when I first started, like, looking into autism Speaks, for example, and showed her what I had found. She wholeheartedly supported my message and my opinions. Like as she started supporting the autism Self-Advocacy network, which is like an organization that I really support because it, because it hires like people who actually have autism and like shows that it's it's a disability.

00:25:17:20 - 00:25:44:22
Unknown
Yes, but it's a condition that that we need to accept and support and uplift and yeah, my, my mom has really been supportive with my, like, journey in journalism. For one, and the journey of my life for two. Like, she's a she taught me a lot. She taught me everything I know now. She's taught me how to be confident, how to be assertive with the things that I'm passionate about.

00:25:44:24 - 00:26:07:05
Unknown
just can't thank you enough. That is amazing. Thank you, mom, for making an amazing call. so if someone wants to connect with you, how do they find you? LinkedIn. What's your what's your favorite? I mean, I'm on LinkedIn. Just my name. Culberson. I have a Twitter that I just made, but there's nothing on it.

00:26:07:07 - 00:26:30:29
Unknown
I mean, I've, I've an Instagram, but it's also private. But if you want to check it out for some reason, see a private profile. It's called PTO for. All right, so LinkedIn Kole Peterson Peterson Peterson and Kole with a K right. Yes that's right. Awesome. Yeah. So that's one of those run I, I had to look several times I will be honest.

00:26:31:00 - 00:26:50:09
Unknown
So Kole Peterson thank you so much for taking some time to chat with me today. I know it's super early where you are, but I'm so glad we got to have this conversation. And I do hope that, we hear from you again in the near future. And thank you so much for having me on. This was, it was an honor to be on the show.

00:26:50:12 - 00:27:16:27
Unknown
And thank you for reaching out and being authentic. Appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. All right, guys, this is another episode of Changing Minds Changing Lives. Go find Kole Peterson, connect with him, give him support, hire him. Whatever. do it. And and read the things that he is writing at the catalyst for the Colorado College. Because they will change your mind about how we think about self reporting and, advocacy organizations.

00:27:17:01 - 00:27:18:19
Unknown
So next time.