CMCL Interview: Ron Fish

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Welcome to another

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episode of Changing Minds Changing Lives.

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My name is Julie Sowash,

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I'm the founder and strategic

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advisor for the Disability

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Solutions team.

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I'm also the CEO of the Catch 22 Group

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and now the Job Doc., Job Board Doctor.

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If you have not seen all that transition,

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it's all out there on the LinkedIn.

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And we talked about it at length

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with Grant Harris, who is our last and

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just fantastic guest

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who talked to us about

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his experience as an adult

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who is diagnosed in autism, who's

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also in the talent

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acquisition and workforce

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development and optimization space.

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Such a raw conversation and helped me

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honestly on a day that I needed it

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to hear,

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the power in my neurodiversity,

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the power in my mental,

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my mental health disabilities.

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And so I just want to encourage

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you guys, go back to listen

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to Grant, check out

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some of our other episodes

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from late last year.

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Also very excited

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about some upcoming episodes.

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Holly O'Hearn is going to come back

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and we're going to talk about

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grieving in the workplace.

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We have, Kadin McElwain who's going to be

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joining us, who I am

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very pumped to talk to

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and I think will be,

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quite a feisty conversation between us.

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But for today,

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I'm also very, very excited

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and very thankful

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that Ron Fish has agreed

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to join us on the Changing Minds

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Changing Lives podcast.

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To have a conversation,

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from his perspective

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as a global talent acquisition leader.

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Who's also passionate about

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inclusive hiring, inclusive workplaces,

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and how to get there

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from a leadership perspective.

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And I welcome you, Ron.

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Thanks for coming to the show.

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Yeah, thanks so much, Julie.

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I really appreciate,

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I'm looking forward to the conversation.

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And then just to highlight

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so I am a global talent

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acquisition leader,

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I head up talent acquisition for,

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software company based in Utah.

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And, that's my day job.

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My, my other job

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is that I also operate as,

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ambassador for disability

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inclusion, championing

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accessibility initiatives

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and my larger goal,

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I guess, today is to really do

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more outreach

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in the HR and talent

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acquisition ecosystem to sort of,

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suck my, colleagues out there into,

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you know, focusing on accessible

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hiring processes,

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building equity

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within hiring programs as well.

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That is amazing.

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And and just, you know, when Ashley

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suggested you as a guest for the show,

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one thing

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that we were very excited about

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is that you are a TA leader.

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You, the title says it.

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All right, global talent acquisition.

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And you have such a unique position,

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I think, in our world right now,

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to be able

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to influence other to leaders because

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you've done the work,

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you understand, scale, you understand

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how do we look at technology as both a

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opportunity and a barrier to employment?

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And as we move into a world

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where AI is going to be a critical part,

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talent acquisition and hiring processes,

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good, bad or indifferent.

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And I'm sure

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we can talk a lot about that.

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Understanding what it means

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to actually implement

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hiring is, is a huge value proposition.

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So I thank you for it for joining us.

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I guess the first question is,

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and I hope, I hope you don't mind it.

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I hope this isn't too personal, but

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how did you come to care about

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accessibility, disability

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inclusion as part of

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not just your day job,

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but your your second job as well?

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Yeah.

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And that's

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really a foundation to,

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you know, what I do today.

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And I'm more than happy

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to talk about that topic.

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So I have a number of people in my family

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with disabilities.

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I grew up, my whole life with my father

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being blind,

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watched him struggle, navigate

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an inaccessible world,

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help him,

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you know, be an accommodation for him

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in some regards,

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but then also see him achieve

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some really great things.

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Then a lot of neurodivergent

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in my immediate family,

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wife and daughter with dyslexia,

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a son with ADHD have seen them struggle.

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Some significantly overcome

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those challenges to achieve success.

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So I would say

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that's the foundation for it.

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And then as I've encountered,

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seeing people encounter barriers

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within the hiring process,

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it's really resonated with me.

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And there have been a number

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of different,

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elements that have really led to me

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sort of going from,

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you know, being inspired

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to make this part of the hiring programs

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that I build

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to really almost becoming obsessed

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with making sure

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that I'm looking at things

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from the universal design perspective

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and really building hiring programs

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that are accounting for way

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more than just,

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you know, offering an accommodation.

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If somebody happens to figure out

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how to get ahold of the right person

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kind of thing.

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Bless you for saying that I can I

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we have a running joke at Disability

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Solutions about how many accommodations

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lines we've called in our,

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you know, auditing

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and never gotten an answer, gotten a

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a voicemail

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that is like, “hi,

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thanks for calling 67547,

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leave a message,” or “this mailbox is full.”

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To have a leader that thinks about

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that upfront and doesn't just

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think that

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this is a little side thing

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that may or may not be important,

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but that the true way to integrate talent

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with disabilities into your

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into your team, but also into your brand,

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is to create

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a truly accessible experience

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from the hiring perspective.

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Thank you.

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It for for saying that.

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So

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tell me a little bit more about how then

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what's happening

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right now

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has sort of impacted

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the way that you are talking potentially

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or moving in this space

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where we're obviously in,

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and just for our listeners

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who might be listening to this later,

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we're in in March of 25, we've had,

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11 246, Executive Order 11 246

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revoked, which

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kind of took that stick away,

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not kind of

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did take the stick away around,

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affirmative action and and hiring

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from a

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from an

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accountability perspective, section

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503 is still the law of the land.

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It's still a requirement.

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And that hasn't changed.

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So has any of this kind of landscape

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that we're living in now.

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Has that changed your approach

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and how are you moving in the space?

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That might be a little bit different.

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That can help our listeners understand,

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you know, from your perspective

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as a global talent acquisition leader,

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how to continue

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to do the work

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in an environment

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that's not as conducive to the work

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as it was a year ago?

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Yeah, that's a great question.

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And it's on all of our minds.

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And I think it's been a gut check

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for everybody in this space.

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When DEIB or DEIA

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becomes like a four letter word, right?

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And suddenly,

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we're faced with this.

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What I'll say is

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my company is committed

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to continue our efforts, in every regard.

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So our focus as a company is very much

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on, the gender diverse hiring side,

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you know, dealing with gender

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issues in the workplace, gender parity,

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as well as the accessibility side.

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So I've had this like maybe crusade

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that I've been on,

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both from the standpoint of what

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I'm doing within my company

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as well as the

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the public engagement

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I'm doing today and,

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with other webinars

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I'm putting on and so forth.

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So I haven't really changed

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what I'm doing.

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I think it's important work.

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My company is committed as well,

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to our initiatives.

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You know, maybe some subtle changes,

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some nuances. Obviously.

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OFCCP is not this big ogre,

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behind every recruiter's back anymore.

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But why change processes

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that have been working?

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And I hope that

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all of the good practices

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that have been employed,

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all of the

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the best practices

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that have been employed,

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continue to resonate

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with all of the hiring managers,

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all the talent acquisition leaders

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and HR leaders out there.

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So we don't, you know,

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go back to the 70s.

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We we continue on the path we're on.

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And then we wait for everything

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to kind of shake out.

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But at this point,

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we're we're committed

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and we're still moving

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forward on our side.

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Yeah.

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I think, thank you for that.

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And I think that's,

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you know, such a good point

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when I'm trying

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to think of the silver linings.

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One thing that I think is,

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is very interesting is without the stick.

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So without the, the enforcement

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mechanism of, of 503,

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how do we,

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how do we look for opportunity?

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And I think one thing is exactly

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what what you said is there's

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there are brands

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that have

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been doing this work for a long time

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and are going to continue to do this work

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because they know that it is

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a is a proper business decision for them

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to do so.

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And they see the value in it.

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And then we're going to see

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on the other side

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those who were performative,

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who did it while it was popular,

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who did it while it was,

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it was the sexy thing to do,

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and then walked away when times got hard.

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And not for us as a community.

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Those, our memories are not short.

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We are not goldfish.

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And and we're going to recognize

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and keep track of who our true allies are

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and how important it is that

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even though there is more nuance,

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I agree we have to,

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we have to make adjustments

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to to the world that we live in now,

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that there's still that commitment.

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And the commitment is, is important.

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And so let me kind of switch off of that

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for a little bit.

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And ask and ask you about how

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your commitment to accessibility

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and inclusion

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has influenced some of your decisions

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in your talent acquisition tech stack.

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Sure.

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And, you know, part of my goal

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here is to show

00:11:08:12 - 00:11:10:00
other talent acquisition

00:11:10:00 - 00:11:13:03
leaders, HR leaders, how uniquely

00:11:13:03 - 00:11:14:05
we're positioned to be able

00:11:14:05 - 00:11:17:00
to make an impact, both for employees.

00:11:17:00 - 00:11:20:06
We know that 75% of the global workers

00:11:20:06 - 00:11:21:11
don't tell their employers

00:11:21:11 - 00:11:23:11
that they have a disability.

00:11:23:11 - 00:11:25:03
So this is this affects

00:11:25:03 - 00:11:28:05
way beyond, you know, the one that,

00:11:28:05 - 00:11:30:01
we may be aware of.

00:11:30:01 - 00:11:32:00
So it's very important.

00:11:32:00 - 00:11:33:02
So how do I account for it

00:11:33:02 - 00:11:36:03
in our tech stack, we,

00:11:36:05 - 00:11:38:12
we essentially offer accessibility

00:11:38:12 - 00:11:40:05
at every stage, you know,

00:11:40:05 - 00:11:41:12
so we have

00:11:41:12 - 00:11:43:12
paths for accessibility requests

00:11:43:12 - 00:11:45:10
that are both specific

00:11:45:10 - 00:11:48:05
to our communications.

00:11:48:05 - 00:11:50:01
When somebody applies

00:11:50:01 - 00:11:51:06
frequently asked questions

00:11:51:06 - 00:11:53:03
around our hiring program,

00:11:54:03 - 00:11:56:10
we include these opportunities.

00:11:56:10 - 00:11:58:14
And I know that we don't have

00:11:58:14 - 00:12:00:08
somebody not answering a phone

00:12:00:08 - 00:12:03:05
because the primary, mailbox

00:12:03:05 - 00:12:07:04
that is, used for this purpose,

00:12:07:14 - 00:12:09:02
is monitored by me.

00:12:09:02 - 00:12:11:11
So, I know for sure

00:12:11:11 - 00:12:13:07
people are getting responses

00:12:13:07 - 00:12:14:11
and even to a fault,

00:12:14:11 - 00:12:15:13
you know, crazy story.

00:12:15:13 - 00:12:17:13
We had somebody that

00:12:17:13 - 00:12:20:04
actually said they had a disability,

00:12:20:04 - 00:12:21:14
later admitted that they didn't.

00:12:21:14 - 00:12:24:00
They were just using the email address

00:12:24:00 - 00:12:26:10
to try to further their candidacy.

00:12:26:10 - 00:12:28:11
And it was a big,

00:12:28:11 - 00:12:31:05
controversial post on LinkedIn.

00:12:31:05 - 00:12:32:10
But it was really interesting,

00:12:32:10 - 00:12:34:01
like the flip side of it

00:12:34:01 - 00:12:36:00
that I had never experienced before.

00:12:36:00 - 00:12:38:02
So it was very unique.

00:12:38:02 - 00:12:40:02
We clearly handled that,

00:12:40:02 - 00:12:42:12
in as professional a manner as possible,

00:12:42:12 - 00:12:44:09
but we try to account for this

00:12:44:09 - 00:12:45:10
in every way.

00:12:45:10 - 00:12:46:09
Make sure we have a

00:12:46:09 - 00:12:48:11
an accessible career site.

00:12:48:11 - 00:12:50:08
We have done a lot of testing

00:12:50:08 - 00:12:52:04
with web access tools,

00:12:52:04 - 00:12:55:00
as well as leveraging individuals

00:12:55:00 - 00:12:56:14
that use assistive technologies

00:12:56:14 - 00:12:57:11
from the Division of

00:12:57:11 - 00:12:59:03
Services for the blind,

00:13:00:06 - 00:13:01:07
and other

00:13:01:07 - 00:13:04:06
resources to ensure that we do have

00:13:04:06 - 00:13:05:11
accessible tech stack,

00:13:05:11 - 00:13:08:01
we have accessible applications

00:13:08:01 - 00:13:11:02
and all of the other pieces there.

00:13:11:03 - 00:13:14:04
So you said something that,

00:13:14:05 - 00:13:17:01
I, I'm going to use to hopefully prove

00:13:17:01 - 00:13:19:08
to, to make a point to our listeners.

00:13:19:08 - 00:13:23:04
So you had an experience where someone,

00:13:23:14 - 00:13:26:02
not a person with a disability,

00:13:26:02 - 00:13:28:10
abused the system.

00:13:28:10 - 00:13:30:00
Did you stop hiring people

00:13:30:00 - 00:13:33:01
with disabilities after that?

00:13:33:01 - 00:13:35:10
Oh absolutely not.

00:13:35:10 - 00:13:36:04
You know, in fact,

00:13:36:04 - 00:13:38:14
I'm more committed than ever.

00:13:38:14 - 00:13:40:12
And I think the the lesson for the,

00:13:40:12 - 00:13:42:13
the individual is to say

00:13:42:13 - 00:13:44:14
this is not a way to skip the line

00:13:44:14 - 00:13:45:12
for anybody.

00:13:45:12 - 00:13:46:01
You know,

00:13:46:01 - 00:13:47:02
this is a way to ensure

00:13:47:02 - 00:13:49:05
that we have equity in our process.

00:13:49:05 - 00:13:51:07
So somebody who literally is,

00:13:51:07 - 00:13:51:11
you know,

00:13:51:11 - 00:13:52:07
part of the deaf

00:13:52:07 - 00:13:53:07
or hard of hearing community

00:13:53:07 - 00:13:56:00
that literally can't hear on a video

00:13:56:00 - 00:13:56:13
call, wants to make sure

00:13:56:13 - 00:13:58:06
that there's captioning available

00:13:58:06 - 00:13:59:14
or that they can bring

00:13:59:14 - 00:14:00:12
their sign language

00:14:00:12 - 00:14:01:14
interpreter with them.

00:14:01:14 - 00:14:03:03
That's what it's about.

00:14:03:03 - 00:14:05:05
It's not about trying to give somebody

00:14:05:05 - 00:14:06:12
an advantage or,

00:14:06:12 - 00:14:07:11
you know, make sure that people

00:14:07:11 - 00:14:10:01
with disabilities or,

00:14:10:01 - 00:14:11:01
from other diversity

00:14:11:01 - 00:14:12:08
categories have an advantage.

00:14:12:08 - 00:14:14:03
It's making sure that there's equity

00:14:14:03 - 00:14:16:03
so that was a hard lesson.

00:14:16:03 - 00:14:18:02
I think that individual learned

00:14:18:02 - 00:14:19:14
I was happy to teach it.

00:14:19:14 - 00:14:22:03
And at the end of the day, Julie,

00:14:22:03 - 00:14:23:12
all of this stuff

00:14:23:12 - 00:14:25:01
raises awareness,

00:14:25:01 - 00:14:27:05
brings visibility to exactly what you and

00:14:27:05 - 00:14:30:11
I are committed to, which is, ensuring

00:14:30:11 - 00:14:33:01
accessibility because individuals

00:14:33:01 - 00:14:34:03
that are not aware of it

00:14:34:03 - 00:14:36:09
or hadn't thought about it, they haven't,

00:14:36:09 - 00:14:37:12
had their own disability

00:14:37:12 - 00:14:39:02
or have been part of a,

00:14:39:02 - 00:14:40:08
you know, community of folks

00:14:40:08 - 00:14:41:10
with disabilities

00:14:41:10 - 00:14:43:10
sometimes are just completely unaware.

00:14:43:10 - 00:14:46:01
And once they are people, usually

00:14:46:01 - 00:14:47:06
most people are empathetic.

00:14:47:06 - 00:14:48:05
They have empathy

00:14:48:05 - 00:14:50:02
baked into their personal values.

00:14:50:02 - 00:14:52:07
So you just have to trigger that

00:14:52:07 - 00:14:54:08
and ensure that people are,

00:14:54:08 - 00:14:56:05
you know, moving forward

00:14:56:05 - 00:14:57:09
in, in that direction

00:14:57:09 - 00:14:59:00
and they're aware of

00:14:59:00 - 00:15:01:01
what's happening around them.

00:15:01:01 - 00:15:01:08
Yeah.

00:15:01:08 - 00:15:04:09
I think you make two, two good points.

00:15:04:13 - 00:15:08:00
One is that there is so much

00:15:08:05 - 00:15:10:13
misperception about

00:15:10:13 - 00:15:13:14
why these types of programs exist

00:15:14:03 - 00:15:17:04
that people who are not part of

00:15:17:10 - 00:15:20:06
a non-disabled,

00:15:21:10 - 00:15:22:13
non white

00:15:22:13 - 00:15:24:13
or non-disabled white community

00:15:24:13 - 00:15:26:14
may not understand that

00:15:26:14 - 00:15:28:07
these are not programs,

00:15:28:07 - 00:15:29:09
these are not laws

00:15:29:09 - 00:15:32:11
or or regulations that are driven

00:15:32:11 - 00:15:36:05
to keep them from opportunities

00:15:36:09 - 00:15:39:07
or to provide us with a hand up.

00:15:39:07 - 00:15:40:02
It's really

00:15:40:02 - 00:15:43:04
just to make the playing field level,

00:15:43:14 - 00:15:45:04
or as level as possible,

00:15:45:04 - 00:15:46:07
because even sometimes

00:15:46:07 - 00:15:47:08
if I have to call

00:15:47:08 - 00:15:49:13
and ask for an accommodation

00:15:49:13 - 00:15:51:14
that still isn't level right,

00:15:51:14 - 00:15:53:02
I should be able to apply

00:15:53:02 - 00:15:54:06
through the regular process.

00:15:54:06 - 00:15:55:10
It's just an opportunity

00:15:55:10 - 00:15:57:10
for me to continue

00:15:57:10 - 00:15:58:14
down the apply process.

00:15:58:14 - 00:16:01:09
It's not a step up.

00:16:01:09 - 00:16:02:05
Absolutely.

00:16:02:05 - 00:16:03:05
In fact,

00:16:03:05 - 00:16:04:07
one of you know, so

00:16:04:07 - 00:16:06:03
one of the watershed moments for me

00:16:06:03 - 00:16:07:07
that took me from like knee deep,

00:16:07:07 - 00:16:08:06
because I had people

00:16:08:06 - 00:16:10:03
with disabilities in my family

00:16:10:03 - 00:16:11:02
and was always sort of

00:16:11:02 - 00:16:13:04
conscious of it in our,

00:16:13:04 - 00:16:13:08
you know,

00:16:13:08 - 00:16:15:07
hiring programs that I built

00:16:15:07 - 00:16:16:05
when I found out

00:16:16:05 - 00:16:17:13
that at my current company

00:16:17:13 - 00:16:19:07
that literally our career site

00:16:19:07 - 00:16:21:11
was eliminating people with disabilities

00:16:21:11 - 00:16:23:06
because it wasn't accessible,

00:16:23:06 - 00:16:26:04
neither was our entire corporate website.

00:16:26:04 - 00:16:28:00
That was a watershed moment for me,

00:16:28:00 - 00:16:28:10
where I was like,

00:16:28:10 - 00:16:29:13
oh my. Like,

00:16:29:13 - 00:16:31:03
I hadn't even considered

00:16:31:03 - 00:16:32:10
that that might be the case.

00:16:32:10 - 00:16:34:12
And when I found it out,

00:16:34:12 - 00:16:35:01
you know,

00:16:35:01 - 00:16:36:08
I went on a mission

00:16:36:08 - 00:16:38:03
to make sure that we fix

00:16:38:03 - 00:16:39:03
that which we've done.

00:16:39:03 - 00:16:41:06
We've brought it to ADA compliance today.

00:16:43:02 - 00:16:44:12
But yeah, that was really a

00:16:44:12 - 00:16:46:09
shocking moment for me

00:16:46:09 - 00:16:48:14
that really again, pushed it.

00:16:48:14 - 00:16:50:08
It was almost like somebody shoved me.

00:16:50:08 - 00:16:51:14
I have my toes in the water.

00:16:51:14 - 00:16:54:03
Somebody shoved me in and I'm like,

00:16:54:03 - 00:16:56:00
I'm, I'm uniquely positioned here.

00:16:56:00 - 00:16:58:03
I can make an impact. And I plan to.

00:16:58:03 - 00:16:58:14
So yeah.

00:16:58:14 - 00:17:01:02
No, that I mean that's that's fantastic.

00:17:01:02 - 00:17:02:12
And and you had

00:17:02:12 - 00:17:04:06
the other kind of take away

00:17:04:06 - 00:17:05:06
that we hear a lot

00:17:05:06 - 00:17:07:07
and from corporate leaders

00:17:07:07 - 00:17:09:04
even still today is well,

00:17:09:04 - 00:17:10:11
I had a bad experience hiring

00:17:10:11 - 00:17:11:10
or hiring a person

00:17:11:10 - 00:17:12:04
with a disability

00:17:12:04 - 00:17:13:11
or I hired a person with a disability

00:17:13:11 - 00:17:15:11
and they didn't stay forever.

00:17:15:11 - 00:17:16:08
So that must mean

00:17:16:08 - 00:17:18:03
I can't hire people with disabilities.

00:17:18:03 - 00:17:21:04
And what you had was an experience,

00:17:21:08 - 00:17:23:06
where someone abused the system.

00:17:23:06 - 00:17:24:07
And it's kind of easy

00:17:24:07 - 00:17:26:05
to, to anecdotally go, you know what?

00:17:26:05 - 00:17:28:11
This isn't this isn't going to work.

00:17:28:11 - 00:17:30:07
And you stayed the course

00:17:30:07 - 00:17:33:08
because you understand that one

00:17:33:12 - 00:17:35:01
non successful hire

00:17:35:01 - 00:17:36:09
or one abuse from the system

00:17:36:09 - 00:17:37:11
is not

00:17:37:11 - 00:17:41:01
reflective of the value of the work

00:17:41:04 - 00:17:43:04
in its in its entirety

00:17:43:04 - 00:17:45:00
or reflective of the community

00:17:45:00 - 00:17:46:07
as a whole.

00:17:46:07 - 00:17:47:01
Absolutely.

00:17:47:01 - 00:17:48:14
They're always going to be bad actors.

00:17:48:14 - 00:17:49:04
I mean,

00:17:49:04 - 00:17:49:10
I get

00:17:49:10 - 00:17:51:03
text messages telling me that

00:17:51:03 - 00:17:53:08
I owe money or,

00:17:53:08 - 00:17:54:09
you know, some other scam.

00:17:54:09 - 00:17:55:08
So there's always going to be

00:17:55:08 - 00:17:56:07
somebody that tries

00:17:56:07 - 00:17:58:13
to find a loophole in the system,

00:17:58:13 - 00:18:01:07
and you just have to understand that

00:18:01:07 - 00:18:02:11
and stay on task.

00:18:02:11 - 00:18:04:09
And that's really what we've done here.

00:18:04:09 - 00:18:04:13
Yeah.

00:18:04:13 - 00:18:07:05
No, that's that's fantastic.

00:18:07:05 - 00:18:08:02
What about

00:18:09:08 - 00:18:10:04
yeah.

00:18:10:04 - 00:18:11:12
So what

00:18:11:12 - 00:18:12:02
do you

00:18:12:02 - 00:18:13:06
have for

00:18:13:06 - 00:18:16:03
or have you done work that's non-U.S.

00:18:16:03 - 00:18:18:05
for the disability

00:18:18:05 - 00:18:21:05
community or talent acquisition?

00:18:21:05 - 00:18:21:11
Yeah.

00:18:21:11 - 00:18:22:03
In fact,

00:18:22:03 - 00:18:23:04
we have really stitched

00:18:23:04 - 00:18:24:03
this thing together

00:18:24:03 - 00:18:25:06
globally, you know, so

00:18:25:06 - 00:18:26:13
when I'm a global talent acquisition

00:18:26:13 - 00:18:29:14
leader, we are, disability confident,

00:18:31:00 - 00:18:33:08
certified in the UK.

00:18:33:08 - 00:18:35:09
We have, a lot of partnerships

00:18:35:09 - 00:18:36:11
in India as well.

00:18:36:11 - 00:18:38:11
We've built a couple of,

00:18:38:11 - 00:18:41:05
computer labs for students at,

00:18:41:05 - 00:18:42:06
a couple of the blind

00:18:42:06 - 00:18:44:02
schools, like the National Institute

00:18:44:02 - 00:18:46:03
for the Blind in India.

00:18:46:03 - 00:18:48:07
So we have definitely done a lot of work.

00:18:48:07 - 00:18:49:06
We're also,

00:18:49:06 - 00:18:50:07
you know, working across

00:18:50:07 - 00:18:53:02
like Singapore, Australia and others.

00:18:53:02 - 00:18:55:10
We've got partnerships with the,

00:18:55:10 - 00:18:57:09
the RNIB in the UK,

00:18:57:09 - 00:19:00:00
which is the Royal National Institute

00:19:00:00 - 00:19:00:10
for the Blind,

00:19:00:10 - 00:19:02:07
I believe is the expanded acronym.

00:19:03:09 - 00:19:05:08
But we've got a partnership with them.

00:19:05:08 - 00:19:06:03
We're

00:19:06:03 - 00:19:07:12
working to get them

00:19:07:12 - 00:19:09:14
to certify our website.

00:19:09:14 - 00:19:11:12
Certainly the ADA seems convinced,

00:19:11:12 - 00:19:14:03
so we're trying to convince them as well.

00:19:14:03 - 00:19:15:03
But we're enjoying

00:19:15:03 - 00:19:17:07
a lot of partnerships globally.

00:19:17:07 - 00:19:20:04
Definitely far beyond just the US.

00:19:20:04 - 00:19:21:11
That's that's really fantastic.

00:19:21:11 - 00:19:24:09
And, and I think something that

00:19:24:09 - 00:19:26:03
a lot of the leaders that we talked

00:19:26:03 - 00:19:29:04
to are very passionate about is,

00:19:29:08 - 00:19:30:12
you know, it's great

00:19:30:12 - 00:19:32:03
that we're doing things in the US,

00:19:32:03 - 00:19:34:02
but how do we figure out how to do things

00:19:34:02 - 00:19:36:01
that are in the other countries

00:19:36:01 - 00:19:37:06
where we, you know, work

00:19:37:06 - 00:19:40:07
and live as as a community?

00:19:40:08 - 00:19:42:01
How did you approach that?

00:19:42:01 - 00:19:43:14
How did you say, okay,

00:19:43:14 - 00:19:44:11
this is something that

00:19:44:11 - 00:19:46:00
we're committed to as a company?

00:19:46:00 - 00:19:47:14
Great. Let's do it.

00:19:47:14 - 00:19:49:04
Then how was the

00:19:49:04 - 00:19:50:10
how did you take the approach?

00:19:50:10 - 00:19:51:02
Is it

00:19:51:02 - 00:19:53:01
is it an overarching strategy

00:19:53:01 - 00:19:53:12
and then a nation

00:19:53:12 - 00:19:55:03
by nation implementation

00:19:55:03 - 00:19:56:00
or even a region

00:19:56:00 - 00:19:57:04
by region implementation?

00:19:57:04 - 00:19:57:14
Can you talk a little

00:19:57:14 - 00:19:58:12
bit more about that?

00:19:59:11 - 00:20:01:09
So it's some of a lot of things.

00:20:01:09 - 00:20:04:04
So what I'll say is that,

00:20:04:04 - 00:20:07:05
when you're a global company that,

00:20:07:08 - 00:20:09:06
you know, is in, in many countries

00:20:09:06 - 00:20:10:03
you don't always know

00:20:10:03 - 00:20:11:09
what everybody else is doing.

00:20:11:09 - 00:20:13:08
So as I became this

00:20:13:08 - 00:20:15:02
accessibility champion,

00:20:15:02 - 00:20:18:05
I began to be looped into things

00:20:18:05 - 00:20:19:03
that were happening.

00:20:19:03 - 00:20:21:12
So I can't take credit for everything

00:20:21:12 - 00:20:22:12
the company has done.

00:20:22:12 - 00:20:23:00
There

00:20:23:00 - 00:20:23:08
certainly have been

00:20:23:08 - 00:20:25:10
a lot of other people here

00:20:25:10 - 00:20:26:14
that have been part of that.

00:20:26:14 - 00:20:28:06
So what I learned

00:20:28:06 - 00:20:29:13
is that our HR leader

00:20:29:13 - 00:20:33:02
in India was promoting some of these,

00:20:33:12 - 00:20:35:13
sort of humanitarian initiatives

00:20:35:13 - 00:20:38:04
or accessibility initiatives.

00:20:38:04 - 00:20:41:05
So really for me, it was more about

00:20:41:06 - 00:20:41:12
some of

00:20:41:12 - 00:20:43:10
that was about understanding

00:20:43:10 - 00:20:45:05
what we're doing as a company

00:20:45:05 - 00:20:47:06
and then elevating that to ensure

00:20:47:06 - 00:20:48:14
that, like our executive leadership

00:20:48:14 - 00:20:50:03
was aware

00:20:50:03 - 00:20:51:08
of all the great work we're doing,

00:20:51:08 - 00:20:52:05
because I get everybody

00:20:52:05 - 00:20:54:05
really interested in accessibility,

00:20:54:05 - 00:20:56:00
disability, inclusion.

00:20:56:00 - 00:20:57:03
And then as I learned about

00:20:57:03 - 00:20:58:14
some of the other things that we've done,

00:20:58:14 - 00:21:00:01
we then expanded.

00:21:00:01 - 00:21:01:05
So,

00:21:01:05 - 00:21:03:11
I can't take credit for the computer labs

00:21:03:11 - 00:21:04:09
in India. Certainly.

00:21:04:09 - 00:21:06:08
That was our, great H.R.

00:21:06:08 - 00:21:07:09
Leader there

00:21:07:09 - 00:21:08:12
that saw fit to do that,

00:21:08:12 - 00:21:09:13
but that began to help us

00:21:09:13 - 00:21:11:12
stitch this together.

00:21:11:12 - 00:21:13:03
The work that we've done in the UK,

00:21:13:03 - 00:21:14:02
I've got colleagues

00:21:14:02 - 00:21:15:11
there, a woman named Fe

00:21:15:11 - 00:21:17:11
that's been a great advocate

00:21:17:11 - 00:21:20:02
and ally supporting those initiatives,

00:21:20:02 - 00:21:21:03
kind of driving things

00:21:21:03 - 00:21:22:01
from that region

00:21:22:01 - 00:21:26:02
perspective as well as other, locations.

00:21:26:02 - 00:21:28:03
So I would say it's a joint effort.

00:21:28:03 - 00:21:30:01
Some of it is just becoming aware

00:21:30:01 - 00:21:31:01
what we've of what

00:21:31:01 - 00:21:32:10
we've been doing globally.

00:21:32:10 - 00:21:35:00
But from the hiring program perspective,

00:21:35:00 - 00:21:35:11
I definitely have been

00:21:35:11 - 00:21:38:00
the catalyst there driving,

00:21:38:00 - 00:21:40:13
a globally accessible hiring program.

00:21:40:13 - 00:21:42:09
So we're ensuring that

00:21:42:09 - 00:21:43:07
we have consistent

00:21:43:07 - 00:21:45:07
processes, universal design

00:21:45:07 - 00:21:47:02
of our hiring program,

00:21:47:02 - 00:21:48:03
and that we're employing

00:21:48:03 - 00:21:50:00
those best practices globally

00:21:51:02 - 00:21:52:12
and are using

00:21:52:12 - 00:21:53:13
different tech stacks

00:21:53:13 - 00:21:56:00
in different countries.

00:21:56:00 - 00:21:57:01
No, in large part,

00:21:57:01 - 00:21:59:06
as far as our hiring process,

00:21:59:06 - 00:22:00:13
it's the same tech stack.

00:22:00:13 - 00:22:02:04
So it's our applicant

00:22:02:04 - 00:22:05:05
tracking system accessible,

00:22:05:09 - 00:22:08:00
you know, application process.

00:22:08:00 - 00:22:10:00
And then so the the individual

00:22:10:00 - 00:22:11:04
that I mentioned earlier

00:22:11:04 - 00:22:13:01
that pretended to have a disability

00:22:13:01 - 00:22:15:09
but didn't was actually based in India.

00:22:15:09 - 00:22:17:00
So that wasn't a US.

00:22:17:00 - 00:22:17:14
So that was

00:22:17:14 - 00:22:21:00
part of our global, accessibility,

00:22:21:07 - 00:22:23:01
you know,

00:22:23:01 - 00:22:25:01
process I guess,

00:22:25:01 - 00:22:27:08
that routed and funneled that to me,

00:22:27:08 - 00:22:29:04
because I want to drive that individually

00:22:29:04 - 00:22:30:13
to make sure that we are,

00:22:30:13 - 00:22:32:03
in fact, providing equity.

00:22:32:03 - 00:22:34:03
And most importantly,

00:22:34:03 - 00:22:37:01
when we have accommodations requested,

00:22:37:01 - 00:22:39:00
we're ensuring that we're coaching

00:22:39:00 - 00:22:40:12
the other hiring stakeholders, right?

00:22:40:12 - 00:22:41:13
Like our recruiters

00:22:41:13 - 00:22:43:08
if needed or we've done that,

00:22:43:08 - 00:22:46:03
but also the individual hiring managers

00:22:46:03 - 00:22:47:10
to say, here's

00:22:47:10 - 00:22:49:06
what you can anticipate in the interview.

00:22:49:06 - 00:22:52:09
And, oh, by the way, this person, is deaf

00:22:52:09 - 00:22:53:12
or hard of hearing

00:22:53:12 - 00:22:55:13
or some other disability.

00:22:55:13 - 00:22:56:07
Why don't we do

00:22:56:07 - 00:22:58:01
an extended interview time?

00:22:58:01 - 00:22:58:05
You know,

00:22:58:05 - 00:22:59:08
let's do 90 minutes

00:22:59:08 - 00:23:01:04
instead of the standard 45 minutes

00:23:01:04 - 00:23:02:05
or an hour

00:23:02:05 - 00:23:04:00
to ensure there's plenty of time

00:23:04:00 - 00:23:04:14
and nobody's

00:23:04:14 - 00:23:06:11
looking at the clock or in a hurry

00:23:06:11 - 00:23:08:13
because communication will happen

00:23:08:13 - 00:23:10:10
on a different cadence for that.

00:23:10:10 - 00:23:12:11
So it gives us that opportunity.

00:23:12:11 - 00:23:14:09
Opportunity for coaching.

00:23:14:09 - 00:23:16:06
And I kind of, you know, keep a tight

00:23:16:06 - 00:23:17:04
hold on it

00:23:17:04 - 00:23:18:13
to ensure that we

00:23:18:13 - 00:23:20:05
are able to provide equity.

00:23:21:05 - 00:23:22:07
So I think that's

00:23:22:07 - 00:23:23:12
that's really fantastic.

00:23:23:12 - 00:23:26:08
That 1 to 1 coaching is so critical.

00:23:26:08 - 00:23:29:03
When we're helping people who

00:23:29:03 - 00:23:32:02
are not disabled to be able to understand

00:23:32:02 - 00:23:34:09
how to comfortably engage,

00:23:34:09 - 00:23:35:14
because I think a lot of times,

00:23:35:14 - 00:23:36:08
the reason

00:23:36:08 - 00:23:39:12
that we avoid situations with people

00:23:39:12 - 00:23:41:01
who are different with us is simply

00:23:41:01 - 00:23:43:03
because we're afraid to offend them.

00:23:43:03 - 00:23:45:00
We're afraid to muck it

00:23:45:00 - 00:23:47:02
up is one of my favorite sayings.

00:23:47:02 - 00:23:48:00
And and we're

00:23:48:00 - 00:23:49:06
just not comfortable in

00:23:49:06 - 00:23:52:07
how we're supposed to act, with someone

00:23:52:07 - 00:23:55:08
who looks, thinks, or feels differently.

00:23:56:03 - 00:23:57:02
So thank you for that.

00:23:57:02 - 00:23:57:12
Is there

00:23:57:12 - 00:23:59:00
would there be any like,

00:23:59:00 - 00:24:00:06
takeaways that you have

00:24:00:06 - 00:24:01:04
from that coaching

00:24:01:04 - 00:24:03:01
that you've done that say,

00:24:03:01 - 00:24:05:00
if I was going to implement a

00:24:05:00 - 00:24:06:01
a large scale

00:24:06:01 - 00:24:07:06
training about what

00:24:07:06 - 00:24:10:00
hiring managers need to know, would

00:24:10:00 - 00:24:11:07
what would be like a couple of things

00:24:11:07 - 00:24:12:05
that you would say, this

00:24:12:05 - 00:24:13:10
has to be included

00:24:14:11 - 00:24:15:04
By far and 

00:24:15:04 - 00:24:17:06
away, Julie, of everything I've done,

00:24:17:06 - 00:24:19:04
I think the biggest impact has been made

00:24:19:04 - 00:24:21:10
by just simply raising awareness.

00:24:21:10 - 00:24:23:02
We have a global accessibility

00:24:23:02 - 00:24:23:13
club as well.

00:24:23:13 - 00:24:25:14
You might not be surprised to hear

00:24:25:14 - 00:24:28:03
it was 4 or 5 people when I got involved.

00:24:28:03 - 00:24:29:01
I didn't start it.

00:24:29:01 - 00:24:30:04
It was started by,

00:24:30:04 - 00:24:33:04
a woman on our UX design team.

00:24:33:04 - 00:24:35:11
It now is over 125 people

00:24:35:11 - 00:24:37:07
that are part of that ecosystem.

00:24:37:07 - 00:24:38:08
So it's super exciting.

00:24:38:08 - 00:24:39:11
But I would say just

00:24:39:11 - 00:24:40:14
raising the awareness.

00:24:40:14 - 00:24:41:09
And again,

00:24:41:09 - 00:24:43:09
the coaching is really more

00:24:43:09 - 00:24:45:05
to just have a discussion.

00:24:45:05 - 00:24:46:05
If I'm trying to walk

00:24:46:05 - 00:24:47:11
in the door of a building

00:24:47:11 - 00:24:48:13
and somebody runs into me,

00:24:48:13 - 00:24:50:02
my immediate reaction is like,

00:24:50:02 - 00:24:50:14
what are they doing?

00:24:50:14 - 00:24:53:07
But then if I look over and see a cane

00:24:53:07 - 00:24:55:07
and realize they're blind, immediately

00:24:55:07 - 00:24:56:01
I'm going to be like,

00:24:56:01 - 00:24:57:03
oh my gosh, you know,

00:24:57:03 - 00:24:57:11
is there any way

00:24:57:11 - 00:24:59:12
I can help you sort of thing?

00:24:59:12 - 00:25:01:08
And I think most of our managers

00:25:01:08 - 00:25:04:01
have reacted just that way to say

00:25:04:01 - 00:25:05:08
thank you for letting me know this.

00:25:05:08 - 00:25:06:14
So I wasn't,

00:25:06:14 - 00:25:07:09
you know, aware

00:25:07:09 - 00:25:09:04
that this person was autistic.

00:25:09:04 - 00:25:10:05
I'm going to absolutely

00:25:10:05 - 00:25:12:13
let them turn off their camera,

00:25:12:13 - 00:25:14:03
if they're most comfortable,

00:25:14:03 - 00:25:15:06
you know, where I'm going to start.

00:25:15:06 - 00:25:16:01
And one thing

00:25:16:01 - 00:25:18:04
we recommend the best practices

00:25:18:04 - 00:25:19:09
start every interview

00:25:19:09 - 00:25:21:12
with something along the lines of,

00:25:21:12 - 00:25:23:04
is there any way I can optimize

00:25:23:04 - 00:25:25:06
this interview experience for you today?

00:25:25:06 - 00:25:27:00
Before we get started?

00:25:27:00 - 00:25:28:08
You know, just simply put it out there.

00:25:28:08 - 00:25:30:03
It might be,

00:25:30:03 - 00:25:31:03
you know, somebody that just says,

00:25:31:03 - 00:25:33:04
can I refill my water glass real quick?

00:25:33:04 - 00:25:35:02
I've been talking a lot today.

00:25:35:02 - 00:25:36:09
Or it might be somebody who's like,

00:25:36:09 - 00:25:38:06
hey, can we test captioning?

00:25:38:06 - 00:25:39:14
Would you mind just talking

00:25:39:14 - 00:25:41:07
while I test captioning?

00:25:41:07 - 00:25:43:01
So it could be something.

00:25:43:01 - 00:25:44:12
But it ultimately is,

00:25:44:12 - 00:25:46:02
it makes a better experience

00:25:46:02 - 00:25:47:03
for everybody.

00:25:47:03 - 00:25:47:14
And I think that's

00:25:47:14 - 00:25:49:08
what accessibility does.

00:25:49:08 - 00:25:51:05
I love that word optimized.

00:25:51:05 - 00:25:51:09
Right.

00:25:51:09 - 00:25:54:14
It I dislike the word accommodation

00:25:54:14 - 00:25:55:13
because it's,

00:25:57:06 - 00:25:58:00
us giving.

00:25:58:00 - 00:25:59:10
It's very charitable.

00:25:59:10 - 00:26:01:04
And it's in its demeanor,

00:26:01:04 - 00:26:03:00
at least to me,

00:26:03:00 - 00:26:03:12
optimize is,

00:26:03:12 - 00:26:05:13
how do we both get most out of this?

00:26:05:13 - 00:26:07:09
How do I figure out how

00:26:07:09 - 00:26:09:11
that we can be most successful together?

00:26:09:11 - 00:26:12:04
I think that's a great word.

00:26:12:04 - 00:26:14:00
So

00:26:14:00 - 00:26:16:01
the the kind of last question

00:26:16:01 - 00:26:19:02
I want to focus on is we've

00:26:19:06 - 00:26:21:11
we go to a lot of TA tech

00:26:21:11 - 00:26:24:13
conferences, HR tech conferences.

00:26:25:02 - 00:26:26:04
It's that time of the year, right?

00:26:26:04 - 00:26:28:07
It's it is conference season.

00:26:28:07 - 00:26:31:08
And every, every booth

00:26:32:03 - 00:26:33:02
that we go to

00:26:33:02 - 00:26:35:05
has AI splashed in big letters

00:26:35:05 - 00:26:36:11
artificial intelligence,

00:26:36:11 - 00:26:39:07
machine learning, blah blah, blah.

00:26:39:07 - 00:26:40:10
And I'm excited about AI.

00:26:40:10 - 00:26:42:03
I'm like, I'm on the train.

00:26:42:03 - 00:26:44:12
I want to be cool.

00:26:44:12 - 00:26:48:07
What we haven't seen roughly in the last

00:26:48:14 - 00:26:50:12
five months is a conversation

00:26:50:12 - 00:26:52:01
around ethical AI.

00:26:52:01 - 00:26:56:01
And what I was very excited about in 23

00:26:56:01 - 00:26:57:13
through late 24

00:26:57:13 - 00:27:00:05
was that the majority of conversations

00:27:00:05 - 00:27:02:01
that I was seeing had,

00:27:02:01 - 00:27:05:02
had an ethical component to it.

00:27:05:08 - 00:27:07:08
And so as you're thinking

00:27:08:11 - 00:27:09:08
as as a

00:27:09:08 - 00:27:11:11
global talent acquisition leader,

00:27:11:11 - 00:27:13:06
I need to hire smarter,

00:27:13:06 - 00:27:14:11
I need to hire faster.

00:27:14:11 - 00:27:17:00
I need to hire more efficiently.

00:27:17:00 - 00:27:18:03
I won't say cheaply,

00:27:18:03 - 00:27:20:08
but more efficiently.

00:27:20:08 - 00:27:21:12
And you're thinking about

00:27:21:12 - 00:27:24:13
how AI fits into your tech stack.

00:27:25:11 - 00:27:27:12
What are some of the the questions

00:27:27:12 - 00:27:30:00
that you're asking or some of

00:27:30:00 - 00:27:31:07
maybe the concerns that you have

00:27:31:07 - 00:27:32:10
when you're talking to a vendor

00:27:32:10 - 00:27:33:05
about

00:27:33:05 - 00:27:34:14
how AI is being implemented

00:27:34:14 - 00:27:37:00
in the technology?

00:27:37:00 - 00:27:37:11
Yeah, and it's good.

00:27:37:11 - 00:27:39:06
I'm having conversations like this

00:27:39:06 - 00:27:41:01
pretty regularly, as a talent

00:27:41:01 - 00:27:41:14
acquisition leader

00:27:41:14 - 00:27:45:01
to ensure that we are embracing AI.

00:27:45:02 - 00:27:45:06
You know,

00:27:45:06 - 00:27:46:08
this is not unlike

00:27:46:08 - 00:27:48:03
a lot of the evolutions

00:27:48:03 - 00:27:49:09
we've seen in the talent

00:27:49:09 - 00:27:51:03
acquisition space.

00:27:51:03 - 00:27:51:12
I used to be

00:27:51:12 - 00:27:53:04
what we would call a headhunter,

00:27:53:04 - 00:27:54:05
you know, back in the day,

00:27:54:05 - 00:27:56:03
and we were proud to be headhunters.

00:27:56:03 - 00:27:57:14
We were like the best investigators

00:27:57:14 - 00:27:59:03
in the world.

00:27:59:03 - 00:27:59:10
Then,

00:27:59:10 - 00:28:00:08
you know, this thing called

00:28:00:08 - 00:28:02:07
the internet happened,

00:28:02:07 - 00:28:04:00
you know, and then came along

00:28:04:00 - 00:28:05:08
fax machines and email

00:28:05:08 - 00:28:06:11
and all of the other things

00:28:06:11 - 00:28:07:09
that came along with it.

00:28:07:09 - 00:28:09:11
So there have been a lot of evolutions.

00:28:09:11 - 00:28:11:07
And I've told people, don't panic.

00:28:11:07 - 00:28:11:11
You know,

00:28:11:11 - 00:28:13:03
this isn't the first change

00:28:13:03 - 00:28:15:05
that's happened and we're still here.

00:28:15:05 - 00:28:16:03
But at the end of the day,

00:28:16:03 - 00:28:17:05
do we need to embrace it?

00:28:17:05 - 00:28:18:10
I firmly believe we do,

00:28:18:10 - 00:28:20:01
because I think that

00:28:20:01 - 00:28:21:04
there are a lot of high

00:28:21:04 - 00:28:22:12
volume, low value tasks

00:28:22:12 - 00:28:24:05
that can be automated.

00:28:24:05 - 00:28:27:03
And, you know, that'll be a big benefit.

00:28:27:03 - 00:28:29:00
It'll give bandwidth to the recruiters

00:28:29:00 - 00:28:31:07
and free them up to be more strategic,

00:28:31:07 - 00:28:32:13
to have those longer,

00:28:32:13 - 00:28:34:04
more meaningful conversations

00:28:34:04 - 00:28:35:13
with hiring stakeholders,

00:28:35:13 - 00:28:37:11
with candidates and so forth.

00:28:37:11 - 00:28:41:01
So I've had some experiences over

00:28:41:07 - 00:28:43:01
a number of years with,

00:28:43:01 - 00:28:43:06
you know,

00:28:43:06 - 00:28:46:06
what was called AI or automation

00:28:46:06 - 00:28:48:11
and have seen a lot of money

00:28:48:11 - 00:28:51:12
go out the door without a lot of ROI.

00:28:52:07 - 00:28:55:08
So the questions that I'm asking are,

00:28:55:12 - 00:28:57:03
you know, show me your demo.

00:28:57:03 - 00:28:58:04
You know, this is great.

00:28:58:04 - 00:28:58:09
You know,

00:28:58:09 - 00:28:59:01
this is I'm

00:28:59:01 - 00:29:00:05
seeing these,

00:29:00:05 - 00:29:02:11
technologies that built into your ATS,

00:29:02:11 - 00:29:04:11
that stack rank candidates.

00:29:04:11 - 00:29:05:14
We get more candidates

00:29:05:14 - 00:29:08:11
than ever, 300 applicants per job,

00:29:08:11 - 00:29:10:08
and it stack ranks the candidates.

00:29:10:08 - 00:29:13:07
Well, my question is, can we do a pilot?

00:29:13:07 - 00:29:15:01
You know, is there a back out clause

00:29:15:01 - 00:29:16:00
if this doesn't work?

00:29:16:00 - 00:29:17:13
Because I've just been part of things

00:29:17:13 - 00:29:19:14
that have not really been

00:29:19:14 - 00:29:20:14
all they're cracked up to be.

00:29:20:14 - 00:29:22:03
They're sort of half baked.

00:29:22:03 - 00:29:23:04
So,

00:29:23:04 - 00:29:25:06
not asking the half baked question

00:29:25:06 - 00:29:26:14
because I don't want to insult anybody.

00:29:26:14 - 00:29:29:02
But at the same time,

00:29:29:02 - 00:29:31:08
a lot of my questions surround,

00:29:31:08 - 00:29:31:12
you know,

00:29:31:12 - 00:29:33:13
do you have customer references

00:29:33:13 - 00:29:35:03
that can speak to the value

00:29:35:03 - 00:29:36:12
they've gotten out of this?

00:29:36:12 - 00:29:38:14
Can we, you know, do a pilot

00:29:38:14 - 00:29:40:13
or is there a back out clause

00:29:40:13 - 00:29:42:07
really looking at these technologies?

00:29:42:07 - 00:29:43:05
But I'm seeing a lot of

00:29:43:05 - 00:29:45:02
really exciting stuff

00:29:45:02 - 00:29:48:00
that absolutely is going to, you know, do

00:29:48:00 - 00:29:49:02
those tasks we don't like.

00:29:49:02 - 00:29:49:06
I mean,

00:29:49:06 - 00:29:50:08
hopefully I eventually

00:29:50:08 - 00:29:52:14
we'll do our laundry, clean our house

00:29:52:14 - 00:29:54:09
and free us up to just,

00:29:54:09 - 00:29:55:07
you know, be on the phone

00:29:55:07 - 00:29:56:14
with our friends and manage

00:29:56:14 - 00:29:58:12
our personal relationships.

00:29:58:12 - 00:30:01:13
But, you know, seeing a lot of,

00:30:02:04 - 00:30:03:07
very, very interesting.

00:30:03:07 - 00:30:04:12
AI, you know, we'll see

00:30:04:12 - 00:30:07:07
if it actually can accomplish and achieve

00:30:07:07 - 00:30:09:01
what it's said to be.

00:30:09:01 - 00:30:12:02
Also looking at conversational AI,

00:30:12:02 - 00:30:13:07
they can do every screening,

00:30:13:07 - 00:30:15:02
do screening at scale, screen

00:30:15:02 - 00:30:16:04
a thousand people,

00:30:16:04 - 00:30:18:14
you know, in a condensed period of time.

00:30:18:14 - 00:30:20:09
Those things are all super exciting.

00:30:20:09 - 00:30:21:03
Do they work?

00:30:21:03 - 00:30:23:11
I think it's, yet to be seen.

00:30:23:11 - 00:30:26:12
Hopefully, we can get some ROI from it.

00:30:27:03 - 00:30:28:03
All right.

00:30:28:03 - 00:30:29:11
So thank you so much.

00:30:29:11 - 00:30:31:13
I'm going to put this interview

00:30:31:13 - 00:30:33:13
just on repeat for,

00:30:33:13 - 00:30:35:12
many of our, our clients

00:30:35:12 - 00:30:37:05
and prospective clients

00:30:37:05 - 00:30:38:04
who are really committed

00:30:38:04 - 00:30:39:07
and passionate about this work,

00:30:39:07 - 00:30:42:05
but need to hear from other to leaders

00:30:42:05 - 00:30:45:03
about how it gets done at scale.

00:30:45:03 - 00:30:48:05
As we wrap up, I was asked two questions.

00:30:48:06 - 00:30:50:06
The first is what is something

00:30:50:06 - 00:30:51:11
that someone has done for you

00:30:51:11 - 00:30:52:04
in your life

00:30:52:04 - 00:30:55:07
that has changed your life as personal or

00:30:56:02 - 00:30:58:06
not personal as you want to share?

00:30:58:06 - 00:30:58:13
Sure.

00:30:58:13 - 00:30:59:13
And I'll,

00:30:59:13 - 00:31:00:03
you know,

00:31:00:03 - 00:31:01:12
just say I feel like in a lot of ways,

00:31:01:12 - 00:31:03:02
the work I'm doing is sort of

00:31:03:02 - 00:31:05:02
from my father's legacy.

00:31:05:02 - 00:31:07:05
He passed away in 2019.

00:31:08:07 - 00:31:10:08
He was blind my whole life.

00:31:10:08 - 00:31:12:11
He was blinded in a car accident,

00:31:12:11 - 00:31:14:00
when his face

00:31:14:00 - 00:31:15:04
impacted the steering wheel.

00:31:15:04 - 00:31:16:12
He had on glasses before

00:31:16:12 - 00:31:18:10
they had shatterproof lenses.

00:31:18:10 - 00:31:21:11
So from 19 on, he was blind.

00:31:21:12 - 00:31:23:04
I would say, you know,

00:31:23:04 - 00:31:25:11
what has been lasting with me

00:31:25:11 - 00:31:29:00
is watching him overcome challenges.

00:31:29:00 - 00:31:30:04
You know, him

00:31:30:04 - 00:31:32:04
being the first blind student

00:31:32:04 - 00:31:33:00
at Penn State

00:31:33:00 - 00:31:34:05
University, graduating

00:31:34:05 - 00:31:38:00
with a master's degree, landing the job,

00:31:38:04 - 00:31:38:13
a job

00:31:38:13 - 00:31:39:08
as the director

00:31:39:08 - 00:31:41:04
of a housing authority,

00:31:41:04 - 00:31:43:13
later starting his own business

00:31:43:13 - 00:31:45:05
when he was working

00:31:45:05 - 00:31:47:01
for the Blind Association

00:31:47:01 - 00:31:48:05
of Western New York.

00:31:48:05 - 00:31:50:14
And they closed the doors of their file

00:31:50:14 - 00:31:52:03
folder company

00:31:52:03 - 00:31:52:09
and him

00:31:52:09 - 00:31:54:02
sort of picking that up on his back,

00:31:54:02 - 00:31:56:08
finding funding and reopening it,

00:31:56:08 - 00:31:58:06
as Blind Industries Incorporated.

00:31:58:06 - 00:32:00:05
So I would just summarize that

00:32:00:05 - 00:32:01:10
by saying that

00:32:01:10 - 00:32:03:01
watching my dad

00:32:03:01 - 00:32:04:06
achieve things

00:32:04:06 - 00:32:06:03
as a blind individual

00:32:06:03 - 00:32:08:07
who has everything against them

00:32:08:07 - 00:32:09:13
and see him overcome it and,

00:32:09:13 - 00:32:11:09
and not be a barrier for him

00:32:11:09 - 00:32:13:04
or the barriers that are there,

00:32:13:04 - 00:32:14:09
he bulldozed through them,

00:32:14:09 - 00:32:17:03
has been inspirational for me, for sure.

00:32:17:03 - 00:32:17:13
Amazing.

00:32:17:13 - 00:32:18:11
Thank you for sharing

00:32:18:11 - 00:32:20:07
your dad with us today.

00:32:20:07 - 00:32:23:05
And last question is,

00:32:23:05 - 00:32:25:01
what is something that you would tell

00:32:25:01 - 00:32:27:02
someone in your shoes

00:32:27:02 - 00:32:29:08
that would help change their minds

00:32:29:08 - 00:32:31:04
about the talent value

00:32:31:04 - 00:32:34:03
that we bring to their workforces?

00:32:34:03 - 00:32:36:10
Yeah, I think and I said it earlier,

00:32:36:10 - 00:32:37:04
I believe

00:32:37:04 - 00:32:39:14
talent acquisition leaders, H.R.

00:32:39:14 - 00:32:41:08
Leaders are uniquely positioned

00:32:41:08 - 00:32:43:11
to be able to make an impact here.

00:32:43:11 - 00:32:44:13
And because so many people

00:32:44:13 - 00:32:46:11
don't disclose a disability,

00:32:46:11 - 00:32:48:03
we have many, many more people

00:32:48:03 - 00:32:49:09
at our organizations

00:32:49:09 - 00:32:52:01
that could benefit from,

00:32:52:01 - 00:32:52:06
you know,

00:32:52:06 - 00:32:54:00
we don't like the word accommodations

00:32:54:00 - 00:32:54:09
per se,

00:32:54:09 - 00:32:57:10
but benefit from accessibility requests.

00:32:57:10 - 00:33:00:06
Being able to acquire software

00:33:00:06 - 00:33:02:01
that would be beneficial for them.

00:33:02:01 - 00:33:04:08
If it's speech to text or

00:33:04:08 - 00:33:05:08
a screen reader, things

00:33:05:08 - 00:33:07:04
that don't cost a lot of money.

00:33:07:04 - 00:33:08:07
And I think that's the big thing.

00:33:08:07 - 00:33:09:05
Employers think,

00:33:09:05 - 00:33:12:01
oh, hiring somebody with a disability

00:33:12:01 - 00:33:13:09
is going to cost me a whole lot of money

00:33:13:09 - 00:33:16:00
when the reality is most of those things,

00:33:16:00 - 00:33:19:04
even building talent acquisition programs

00:33:19:04 - 00:33:21:03
with accessibility in mind,

00:33:21:03 - 00:33:23:00
it doesn't cost any money.

00:33:23:00 - 00:33:24:06
It's just designing

00:33:24:06 - 00:33:26:08
from that universal design perspective.

00:33:26:08 - 00:33:27:09
So I think

00:33:27:09 - 00:33:28:11
one of the big myths

00:33:28:11 - 00:33:29:11
is absolutely

00:33:29:11 - 00:33:32:04
that this is going to cost a lot.

00:33:32:04 - 00:33:34:08
As opposed to,

00:33:34:08 - 00:33:37:09
you know, it's it's not really costly.

00:33:38:00 - 00:33:38:11
And it just makes

00:33:38:11 - 00:33:40:11
a, a better, environment

00:33:40:11 - 00:33:42:13
for everybody at the end of the day.

00:33:42:13 - 00:33:43:12
Amazing.

00:33:43:12 - 00:33:45:06
So if someone wants to connect

00:33:45:06 - 00:33:46:08
with you, Mr. Ron

00:33:46:08 - 00:33:47:10
Fish, how do they find you?

00:33:48:10 - 00:33:49:14
Hit me up on LinkedIn.

00:33:49:14 - 00:33:52:01
I'm pretty active out there.

00:33:52:01 - 00:33:54:13
I'm certainly always on a campaign

00:33:54:13 - 00:33:57:10
around accessibility to spread the word.

00:33:57:10 - 00:33:58:05
So feel free

00:33:58:05 - 00:34:00:05
to reach out to me on LinkedIn.

00:34:00:05 - 00:34:02:00
I've got some other,

00:34:02:00 - 00:34:03:01
you know, articles and things

00:34:03:01 - 00:34:04:03
I've written on the topic

00:34:04:03 - 00:34:07:07
on ERE Media as well.

00:34:08:00 - 00:34:09:02
But feel free to hit me up,

00:34:09:02 - 00:34:11:00
send me a friend request.

00:34:11:00 - 00:34:12:09
And I'm also

00:34:12:09 - 00:34:14:09
always happy to connect offline,

00:34:14:09 - 00:34:16:06
you know, to have 1 to 1 discussions

00:34:16:06 - 00:34:19:09
and to provide tips, information

00:34:20:00 - 00:34:21:02
and that kind of thing

00:34:21:02 - 00:34:22:02
for anybody out there

00:34:22:02 - 00:34:23:14
that's in a similar position to me

00:34:23:14 - 00:34:25:07
or just wants to know more,

00:34:25:07 - 00:34:26:13
I'm always happy to help out.

00:34:26:13 - 00:34:28:02
So that's an open invitation

00:34:28:02 - 00:34:29:08
to your listeners to,

00:34:29:08 - 00:34:31:01
to feel free to reach out.

00:34:31:01 - 00:34:33:01
And I hope they will take you up on it.

00:34:33:01 - 00:34:34:08
Ron Fish, Global Talent

00:34:34:08 - 00:34:36:03
Acquisition Leader.

00:34:36:03 - 00:34:38:03
Thank you so much for joining us.

00:34:38:03 - 00:34:39:12
Thank you for this perspective

00:34:39:12 - 00:34:41:12
that we need to hear right now

00:34:41:12 - 00:34:43:04
and and for doing the work

00:34:43:04 - 00:34:43:14
that you do

00:34:43:14 - 00:34:46:13
and carrying on your dad's legacy to,

00:34:46:13 - 00:34:48:06
make an impact that that does,

00:34:48:06 - 00:34:50:05
in fact, change lives.

00:34:50:05 - 00:34:51:10
Thanks for the opportunity, Julia.

00:34:51:10 - 00:34:52:14
Appreciate the conversation.